Author Topic: Does he have the Cajones... Will he do it?  (Read 3515 times)

Offline Hangtime

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Does he have the Cajones... Will he do it?
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2006, 07:37:31 PM »
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
And when he acts like we are at war you liberals start screaming about "living in fear"  Alot of preparedness is born out of fear but of course we can't make people affraid for political reasons or god forbid national security reasons even if they are the right thing to do.  http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=Bush%2C+fear


Guns.. we're all grown up now. Boogie men with towels on their heads don't scare us any more. Scaring Soccer moms is kinda tacky, dontcha think?

I'm far more 'scared' of a governemnet that's happily trampling our rights in pursuit of boogie men... and a lame duck president that grows increasingly more stubborn on the subject.
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Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2006, 09:12:52 PM »
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Nope.. don't like yer numbers. North American in-the-dirt resource statistics from my sources say 'in the billions of barrels'


10 billion barrels of recoverable reserves, yes, but that doesn't mean yearly production of billions of barrels. In fact, that link says about 1 million barrels a day. The US currently has a shortfall of over 13 million barrels a day.

Even if you did extract a billion extra barrels a year from ANWR, and went through the reserves in ten years flat (probably impoosible, certainly not economic), that's less than 3 million barrels a day, the shortfall is over 13 million.

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Shortfalls? Sure. but not when we go after the oil that's already HERE.


Not in conventional oil. Note what that link say, quoting pres Bush:

"Developing a small section of ANWR would not only create thousands of new jobs, but it would eventually reduce our dependence on foreign oil by up to a million barrels of oil a day,"

and:

"ANWR, with the potential for 1 million barrels of oil a day, will be the most significant onshore production capacity of any onshore area in the United States," said New Mexico Republican Sen. Pete Domenici."

Using coal - to - oil or oil sands, shales etc might be able to make up the shortfall, but if it was easy it would already be happening, and it will take many years to build that sort of capacity.

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While we have yet to really START pursuing new oil production here in the US, Saudi Arabia is pretty close to 'tapped'... they SAY they can produce more.. but haven't managed it yet. We KNOW we can produce more.. and we ain't started yet.


Actually the US is pretty tapped out, because production started in the US so long ago. That's why US production has been declining for years. It peaked at over 9.6 million barrels a day in 1970, it's now down to barely over 5 million a day, and has fallen every single year since 1991. Proved reserves peaked at 39 billion barrels in 1971, they are now down to 21 billion.


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I could sure find a place for the exports... here.


But if the US isn't exporting, then the countries that are buying oil off the US will just buy it off someone else, which means the US will be able to import less.

All that does is tinker with the market and prevent it working efficintly. It doesn't change demand, doesn't provide any more oil for the US, and doesn't change the fact the US has to import millions of barrels a day.

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Enh? If our pricing is based on supply side economics then we can't have it both ways, can we? What yer saying here is our government taxes our gas less.. so for 40 years our gas was cheaper.


No, your gas was the same price as other people's, it just wasn't (and isn't) taxed as highly.

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Unca sam just bumped his taxes 100% this week so our gas prices are now in line with the worlds?? Yer not making much sense here...


No, Uncle Sam didn't increase taxes, the price of oil just went up, for everybody.

Your gas is still the same cost as everyone else's, it still isn't taxed as highly, but it's more expensive than it was before.

Note the oil is more expensive, not the taxes. Europeans are still paying a lot more at the pump because they are paying higher taxes. The price they are paying to the oil companies is similar to the price you are.

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10 million a day? Piece of cake. "Hello Canada! Hello Mexico! Guess What??!! You gotta new Oil partner.. from now on, all yer oil exports come here.. wuzzat? ..you already have a deal with China?? check yer radar lately? we just cancled yer china deals. We're buying what you send them.. same price. ..that is unless you wanna play 'conquistadores and indians' again.."


You don't seem to have read the figures.

The US consumes 20.5 million barrels a day. Canada and Mexico and the US consume 24.6 million barrels a day.

Canada, the US and Mexico produce 14.15 million barrels a day. Take all the oil they produce (and North America does take 90% of it now) and you still have to import more than 10 million barrels a day.

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Looks like Australia and Japan can get in line with china at the saudi terminals. I doubt they'll be paying any more.. just getting it from there insteada here.


Which means less for you to get from there.

Of course, Japan and Australia already do get most of their oil from elsewhere, the amounts they receive from the US are truely tiny.

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Ahhh.. but therin lies loads (and barrells) of opportunity.. opporunities to exploit reserves here, make new trading alliances and get the hell off of opec's tit.


If you get off opec's tit, who's tt do you get on? You already suck Canada and Mexico dry, where do you think the extra 10 million barrels a day are going to come from? ANWR might make up 1 million, that's still 9 million a day missing (and by the time ANWR oil comes on stream, the already decling US oil production will have declined further, meaning you'll probably still need 10 million barrels a day)

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Cutting OPEC out will certainly be painful.. and expensive. We may yet wind up at the same $ per gallon in the SUV tanks that the 'rest' of the world pays


You already are. A gallon of gasoline or a barrel of crude costs about the same in the US as in Europe.

No matter what the price goes up to, though, the Europeans will still have to pay more to fill their tanks because of taxes.

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but guess what.. we won't be fattening any Arab's coffers, will we?


Arabs have got lots of oil. Whilst deman is high, they will be able to sell lot's of it.

Suppose the US bought al Britain's and Norway's oil output, and all Nigeria's, and a few other countries. The US wouldn't need any Arab oil.

But Europe, which used to take Britain's and Norway's oil, and much of Nigeria's, will have to buy the same amount of oil from the Arabs instead.

The Arabs don't care, they sell their oil. The shipping companies benefit, because rather than oil being shipped to where it's cheapest (usually nearest), it's being shipped long distances. The consumers lose out, because they have to pay extra shipping costs.

The only way to make sure the Arabs don't get so much money is to reduce demand (meaning they sell less oil) or increase supply (meaning the Arabs sell less oil, and somebody else sells more). Merely changing who buys from who makes no real difference at all.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2006, 09:24:14 PM by Nashwan »

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2006, 09:24:08 PM »
the sad thing to this whole thing is that when the dems promise cheaper gas if they are elected, too many american idiots will believe them ...
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Offline Debonair

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« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2006, 10:51:24 PM »
guy elected will then say "$1.50, pull my finger....PNWD!!!!!"

Offline Wolfala

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« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2006, 01:43:27 AM »
As a general question, what % of oil drilled and shipped from the Alaska fields actually makes it to the refineries on the west coast U.S. and not the far east? (i.e. Japan, etc)

Wolf


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Offline Rolex

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« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2006, 01:58:15 AM »
I can tell you precisely, Wolf. No oil is exported from Alaska by federal mandate. It was only exported for a short time, 1996-2000.

Offline Wolfala

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« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2006, 02:42:49 AM »
So 100% of what is drilled in alaska is for domestic U.S. use?


the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2006, 03:11:00 AM »
Yes. By law, it can only be used for domestic consumption. It ships to refineries in California and through the Panama Canal to Gulf Coast refineries.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2006, 07:05:50 AM »
Yes, by all means, let's have price controls on gasoline. That way we can all enjoy cheap gasoline. While we sit in lines 3 miles long to get less gas than we burned sitting in line wasting precious hours of our lives. It worked so damned good under Carter I cannot freaking wait to do it again. I WANT to leave for work at 3AM so I can sit in line to get gas. I'd LOVE for my dinner to be as cold as my beer when I get home after waiting 3 hours to get enough gas to get back to work in the morning. Can we start today? That way we can be like Hawaii, when they tried price controls on gasoline a few months ago. How did that work out? Not too good?

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Offline CHECKERS

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Does he have the Cajones... Will he do it?
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2006, 08:12:08 AM »
NFW......
Originally posted by Panman
God the BK's are some some ugly mo-fo's. Please no more pictures, I'm going blind Bet your mothers don't even love ya cause u'all sooooooooo F******* ulgy.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2006, 08:25:18 AM »
When it get's expensive enough we will find ways to go alternative and we will find or use reserves we have here.

nashwan talks about shortfalls that need not exist.  We could develop all sorts of alternative power sources and cheap electricity...  cheap electric cars could drop dependence by 10% easily with no inconvienence.   Cheap electricity would decrease refining costs for difficult to refine fuel sources.

The best thing would be to limit the tax on fuel and let the actual cost of the product reflect what it was a barrel.

We are about to get into the dollar a gallon tax range here... we can just drop all that save a few cents a gallon going to an enterprise fund for road construction and repair.

interesting times.... we will get through it and as usual.... better than the socialists get through it.

lazs

Offline Red Tail 444

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« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2006, 09:52:10 AM »
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Originally posted by beet1e
In some European countries such as Italy and Austria, 60% of passenger cars are diesel powered and would get about 50 miles per gallon, some much more than that.


Call it a reach, but I really doubt you'll see a market in the US for those sardine can sized cars or tricycle automobiles you see in those British sit-coms.

Americans in general are too vain/materialistic/insecure to put themselves in something that doesn't suggest that they're successful, sexy, rich, etc.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 09:57:45 AM by Red Tail 444 »

Offline Red Tail 444

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« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2006, 09:53:00 AM »
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« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 09:58:10 AM by Red Tail 444 »

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2006, 11:48:24 AM »
Lazs - those alternative energy sources you speak of are not simply going to appear as if by magic. They are going to cost money. Not only that, but the technlogy to harness any new alternative energy source is going to have to be developed. Cars running on a shovel load of oil shale are not going to appear out of thin air.
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Call it a reach, but I really doubt you'll see a market in the US for those sardine can sized cars or tricycle automobiles you see in those British sit-coms.
Let's see what happens when gas hits $10/gallon. I think that's exactly what you might see. Sardine can sized cars are exactly what I saw appearing on American roads when I was over there at the time of the 1979 Iranian revolution. Besides, just because a car has a diesel engine does not make it a sardine can. And... as for whether the same cars would sell, we need only look to the sales figures of European imports to the US. I'll do it later.

Offline Red Tail 444

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« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2006, 01:38:36 PM »
Americans are fatter than ever, we can't FIT into those cars, let alone look sexy in them.