Just say no to drugs

[mrfish]

 

Originally posted by -ammo-:

Nothing good comes from illigal drugs. They are a bane to our society.

then you are in support of a ban on cigarettes, cigars, chewing tobocco and alcohol? oh wait they are legal - vastly more damaging, but legal so it is only socially unacceptable drugs that are a bane - their legal staus somehow makes it ok instead of their constructive effects?



[This message has been edited by mrfish (edited 05-15-2001).]

[-ammo-]

 

Originally posted by mrfish:
 then you are in support of a ban on cigarettes, cigars, chewing tobocco and alcohol? oh wait they are legal - vastly more damaging, but legal so it is only socially unacceptable drugs that are a bane - their legal staus somehow makes it ok instead of their constructive effects?

[This message has been edited by mrfish (edited 05-15-2001).]

As far as I am concerned alcohol could be banned and it would not bother me a bit. IOt is also mind altering and renders folks dangerous. Many folks die from the effects of it in car accidents ..daily. Much more than guns. However our laws provide a provision for those (tobacco too) and THAT (the Constitution) is SOMETHING ELSE I feel very strongly about. Are you starting to see a common thought from me?

<S>

[jihad]

Nothing good comes from illegal drugs. They are a bane to our society.

I absolutely agree with this statement.

Common sense says that no policy the government or courts implement will stop people from using them - people will abuse substances no matter the price or penalty.

The so called "war on drugs" has been a monumental waste of time and resources and its not going to get any better.

I know several people in prison who were arrested for drug related crimes -  a friend of 25 years received a sentence last March for 47 years.

He will be near or past sixty when he is released, his children will grow up without him - that's a sad thing IMO.

Its also sad that everyone of us are going to pay for the cost of his incarceration.

<along with the other millions of prisoners jailed for drug crimes>

ITS TIME FOR A RATIONAL DRUG POLICY TO COME OUT OF WASHINGTON!

Legalize and tax the hell out of the toejam, it will pay for education, prevention programs and remove a lot of the crime that comes with the territory.

Too bad common sense is non-existent in Washington.

[Sandman_SBM]

This is a hoot.
 http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=95000473

More Clinton bashing. This time about the drug war. Isn't the drug war budget something like $50 Billion? Don't recall Clinton lowering it.

Also... (Retired) Major Felkins USArmy has some interesting things to point out about the drug war. http://www.antiwar.com/orig/felkins2.html

[This message has been edited by Sandman_SBM (edited 05-16-2001).]

[LaVa]

Jihad could not have said it better!!

Amen!!!

Simple economics, US spends Billions of dollars on the drug war and has yet to yeild any results.  Sure that makes sense.

Legalize pot and place a very high tax on it...O my imagine the revene!!

20 pack of pot sigs cost .10 to make - sell  it for 20 bucks.

Baaa that makes too much sense.

I think one of the biggests issues is how many law enforcement type people we employ ever year.  Keep em, we are talking about leagalizing pot, not coke.

LaVa

[Pepe]

If you want a real example, see what was the use of banning alcohol in early 20's in your country.

Pepe.

[AG Sachsenberg]

20 bucks for 20 j's?  Can't be true,

[miko2d]

 There are too many entrenched interests now interested in continuing war on drugs because their livelihood depends on it - drug producers, drug enforcers, etc.
 Most government agencies are lile that - a cancer that tends to grow unless restricted.
 
 There are only two ways to stop it now:
 1. People recognizing the futility and harm of war on drugs and voting for the legislators taht would legalize drugs.

 But if US public was that rational, thay would have probably just used the second way with much less fuss:
 2. Stop poisoning themselves with mind-altering substances.

 Neither is going to happen unless some serious crisis happens, like country going bankrupt.

 Most people harmed by drugs are innocent bystanders in the turf wars or those assaulted by drug addicts who need hundred of dollars to buy a product that costs very little to produce.
 Of course our legislators or other drug policy experts do not live in the neighbourhoods where such bad things happen. Their friends or relatives are not likely to get jailed for dozens of years for a minor offence. So why would they care or even know!

 miko

[mrfish]

 

Originally posted by -ammo-:
However our laws provide a provision for ...[para.]tobacco too <S>

really, ammo - think about that for a minute. laws are dynamic - you can change them to suit the times or advancements in knowledge. on the one hand you support tobacco which kills tens of thousands of people because of a provision for it in the constitution (which i am not aware of but will take your word for it in lieu of looking it up) but you don't support marijuana legalization? laws once prohibited women from voting and counted blacks a fraction of a person! how did they get changed unless someone challenged the legitimacy of them? laws are meant to be changed to fit common sense

tobacco is addictive. tobacco is damaging. too much nicotiene can kill you an equilalent amount of thc would not. people who smoke can barely go 10 minutes without a cigarette - if they dont get the cigarette the act irrationally until their addiction is satisfied - including picking up old burnt out garbage cigarettes and trying to resurrect one satisfying fix - i know 1st hand i smoked cigarettes for 12 years before growing a brain.

marijuana smokers can go weeks, months whatever. just because a law exists doesnt mean it is just or the best law in any case -i think anyone studying social construction would have a field day with this thread -

i mean if marijuana was legal and one could get jackets, coolers and other neat stuff from collecting 'bud-points' and there were all kinds of commercials showing attractive people hitting a bong - a cool marijuana brand mascot named 'bud-man' that burst into parties and made everything cool and your father smoked as did his father.... then it would be a different story. your decision to support one or the other seems to be based on tradition and trust of lawmakers - not the facts!

of all the drugs that should be done in the closet you'd think it would be tobacco! a short useless high followed by intense cravings that eventually rots your body - and kills you early like it did ol' grandad who died of cancer at age 58(3 packs p/day of lucky's from age 13 on).....how ironic that marijuana is illegal and tobacco companies help get politicians elected and get seats at fundraisers.

all these mind altering effects are way over done. it is illegal so it attracts people trying to be cool or different and they usually act pretty stupid and pierce lots of things. truth is they have lots of other problems and mary jane is being scapegpated - you see them at parties pretending to hallucinate - they start spinning and using the word 'dude' wayyyyy too much and get this goofy look on their face - they are amateurs and you see the same garbage of people on their first beer - it is irritating but people with real experience with marijuana and not progaganda victims know its no big deal when used responsibly - well...it did make my first semster calculus midterm a bit rocky once  but that was my fault for using before class - imagine what a shot of jim bean would of done. landed a b anyway    in other words don't believe the hype, the law should fit common sense


- you obviously just want to do the right thing <S> for that, not suggesting any bad intention at all, but i think it isnt so cut and dry as banning it - on that we wdisagree, and that the field is riddled with misconceptions. sorry for the long post!

[funked]

Ammo <S> for having a position which is consistent.

But I don't believe that anybody else on this planet has the right to tell me what I can or can't put in my body.

[LaVa]

Self-Governing issues....

What funked said....as long as your not "hurting" other plp then who cares.

If you want to run around on your own property high as a kite chasing rabbits, then its your god given right, just dont get into your car and drive in rush hour baked out of your mind, although i know a couple of guys that can do this without much trouble.  But, he is a chemistry professor and maintains a buzz 24/7. Back to my point, Nobody has the right to tell you what you can do with your body.

Youth in Asia comes to mind and how that DR. kervokian <sp> is in jail because he helped a few plp carry out their last wishes.  Thats BS.

LaVa

[miko2d]

 The governments created by populations themselves are usually created with the purpose of protecting people from other people. For that they are given power over pople.
 Of course helpfull people in charge of the governments are glad to offer their services to supervise protecting people from ourselves, meaning the actions that people cando to hurt themselves. They just need some more power over people. In many cases it sounds attractive - you are too stupid to not marry a drunk and too weak to control your husband or too busy to educate your children, so let's make it so that no one else has access to liquor.

 Then they helpfully undertake to decide what actions are hurtfull and who to consider people etc.
 An of course they vote a bigger budget for themselves and more employees for their empires that are responcible to them but paid for by us....

 Now a god-created plant grows in your backyard from a seed brought by wind (I would never recognize a marijuana plant by sight) and you are a criminal. Take a contraceptive pill, an you may well find yourself a murderer.

 miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 05-16-2001).]

[AKSWulfe]

My body, my mind.

Unless my other 14million fellow Americans own my ass... then that's news to me.
-SW

[-ammo-]

first, let me state that I am a Christian, and I am in opposition to some of the ways that todays society seems to think is a wonderfull thing. I am against the ideal that if it feels good..it must be right. I dont drink, I dont use tobacco...anymore I used Copenhagen snuff for 17 years and it is as you saiod very addictive. It was one of my biggest challenges to quit. I at one point in my life was a heavy drinker, and earlier on a drinker and partaker of many types of drugs.

Now Jihad says that it makes sense to legalize and it would save all those millions of dollars spent torward fighting illigal drug traffic and use, that it has been a monumental waste in the past and we should just give in and legalize it and maybe even make a profit in taxes. Well I guess if your pocket book is where you put your ethics and your faith then that would make sense...but that just dont wash with me. I believe that that drug use adn distribution is rightfully wrong, and it is inherently dangerous. There is nothing wrong with practicing a little restraint. I teach my kids this daily. And if we as a country were to legalize it, then we are endorsing it. THAT IS WRONG, and wrong is more important than the moneyt we would collect in taxes.

SW..<S> but you can make that statement to the judge, hopefully he will buy off on it. Personally I would be more intersted in being a law abiding citizen, I sleep better when I call people out if I know i am not a hypocrite. But to each his own. I Speak for me.

[AKSWulfe]

 

Originally posted by -ammo-:
SW..<S> but you can make that statement to the judge, hopefully he will buy off on it. Personally I would be more intersted in being a law abiding citizen, I sleep better when I call people out if I know i am not a hypocrite. But to each his own. I Speak for me.

Now I meant no disrespect to you and I understand your position. I'm just going to lay it all out on the table though, so you can understand where I am coming from.

I've SEEN alchohol take one of my parent's lives at a very early age. It's not pretty sitting next to your parent that is bloated and yellow with jauntice from a failed liver at the age of 12. I can guarantee you, alchohol is by far 100times more damaging to the body than marijauna is. Unless that marijuana is laced with something or has been sprayed with something.

I've had my fair share of drugs... LSD, Mushrooms (psylosomethingerother), MDMA/MDA(Ecstasy), speed, alchohol and marijuana. I won't touch heroin, cocaine, or PCP.

You can overdose on all of the above, except for one. Which one?

Marijuana.

Marijuana, if used regularly, thickens the cells walls of your mind. However, the effects dissipate if a period of time without using it goes by. The period of time is dependant entirely on how heavily you use it and how often you use it.

There are as many carcinogens in joint of marijuana as there is in a pack of 20 cigarettes. If used with alchohol, the damage on your liver increased 10 fold.

NOW, if you eat marijuana, in spaghetti sauce or brownies or whatever, the damage to yourself is nill.

In the end, if used properly the damaging effects of marijuana are FAR FAR less than that of the two substances currently circulating the USA as "legal" drugs- Tobacco and Alchohol. The damage to your lungs from Tobacco (and the other chemicals they throw in there) is irreversible. After 10 years, the damage to your lungs from smoking marijuana begins to reverse itself and slightly rejuvinate. Never all the way, but the chances of getting cancer from it are FAR less than that of smoking tobacco.

Alchohol, well you are just pulling punches with the devil right there. If you overdose on alchohol (alchohol poisoning) you need to go to the hospital IMMEDIATELY. If you don't, well you'll either be walking around with a half functioning liver, brain dead or be dead.

In the end it really matters nothing whether they legalize it or not. It'll always be around, and it's EASIER for your KIDS to get marijuana than you could ever imagine.

You make something illegal and the people that are drug running will simply target the most susceptible group, that being children.

It's just as easy for your kids to get marijuana as it is for them to get cigarettes or alchohol when they are underage. I'm not saying legalizing it will reverse that, but it's something to think about.

Yes, I have been arrested for marijuana. While it's "the law" not to smoke marijuana, it's rather redundant. I can see laws for shooting someone, carrying a knife around, or something that otherwise affects someone else. But seriously, you are targetting people because they feel like experiencing something?

If you (not you ammo, general) like to drink and enjoy getting drunk, who are YOU to say that *I* or someone else can NOT get high? You are a hypcrite and utterly ignorant of what you are fighting. (again, not you ammo)

I don't want drugs legalized, but I would like to see marijuana legalized in my future. (I'm young, so I can wait till my generation is in government offices! ;-)

Half of these so called "facts" floating around government offices on "faq sheets" are blown up with misnomers and lies.

You know why marijuana is illegal? Someone decided it was a good idea to fill the television airwaves in the '20s with propaganda that kids will beat their mothers up to just "get high".

Lies, misnomers and general misedjucation... but I digress.

If it's something you like doing and you hurt no one else (victimless crime), man you really should be allowed to it. Kind of like organized religion, you know...
-SW
EDIT: S! Ammo, I respect your opinion and am just offering reasons as to why I believe it could be legalized. I enjoy going over to a friends house or being at my own house and smoking... but the key to not getting it out of hand is moderation and responsibility.

[This message has been edited by AKSWulfe (edited 05-16-2001).]