Author Topic: Idea discussed at the con.  (Read 10304 times)

Offline lazs2

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #180 on: July 09, 2006, 09:41:32 AM »
I don't think that a useless field with no fighter hangers up but that would take even longer to change over would be very good.

I would either like to see ack and hangers last till the city was captured or the field to fall even easier.

More ack and more powerfull and accurate and difficult to knock out ack.    A fighter straffing a field should be a suicide mission.   A bomber at less than 30k should be dead meat and most of his bombs shouldn't hit anything.

Bombs should be perked for both fighters and bombers.

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Offline PuckIt

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #181 on: July 09, 2006, 10:29:30 AM »
My vote is no. I think others have covered why not. So I wont repost whats already been stated.

Offline Bronk

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« Reply #182 on: July 09, 2006, 11:37:40 AM »
Here's an idea. That wont alter how the game works but how we play it.
Make all field structures an guns damaged by bombs only. Make it work like GV armor.  Town buildings can remain as they are.
 fuel, guns= 100 lbs
 ammo bunkers, troops,= 250 lbs

Also up the number of troops, ords, and fuel on all bases by 1 or 2.



Imho  this would stop most single AC from porking up a base in one flight.
It would also make players use real jabo AC instead of La7s and 190Ds.


Bronk

PS I'm on the fence about the Guns and fuel since both are easily damages by AC gun fire. But if it puts a stop to the "pork the base auger" I'd go for it.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2006, 11:39:50 AM by Bronk »
See Rule #4

Offline airspro

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #183 on: July 09, 2006, 11:40:18 AM »
Wat Tilt said mostly and Widewing .

Perk the bombs .
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Offline x0847Marine

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« Reply #184 on: July 09, 2006, 01:22:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by airspro
Wat Tilt said mostly and Widewing .

Perk the bombs .


Make it so pork people cant attack the same country twice.

A Knit porks a rook base & dies, for the next 10 min he can only fly against bish.

Gameplay for everyone else stays the same, pork people get handed long delays in trying to pork just 1 feild.

Offline fuzeman

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« Reply #185 on: July 09, 2006, 01:23:24 PM »
As usual Widewing's ideas make more sense than mine. Proxy vote to Widewing.
Far too many, if not most, people on this Board post just to say something opposed to posting when they have something to say.

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Offline KTM520guy

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« Reply #186 on: July 09, 2006, 02:03:40 PM »
Here's a crazy idea. Instead of Hitech wasting his most valuable time coading an ill-conceived change to the game, we (the players in the game) could take matters into our own hands. Using the tools we already have. Now for the crazy part so hold onto your shorts. We could DEFEND our bases. If you really want to talk insane, we could resupply. Ever wonder why the rooks steamroll most of the maps? They resupply. When they get rolling just try and pork their troops. Before you land they have troops back up.
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Offline NoBaddy

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #187 on: July 09, 2006, 02:37:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by KTM520guy
Here's a crazy idea. Instead of Hitech wasting his most valuable time coading an ill-conceived change to the game, we (the players in the game) could take matters into our own hands. Using the tools we already have. Now for the crazy part so hold onto your shorts. We could DEFEND our bases. If you really want to talk insane, we could resupply. Ever wonder why the rooks steamroll most of the maps? They resupply. When they get rolling just try and pork their troops. Before you land they have troops back up.


Here's another crazy idea!! How about understanding what he is trying to deal with!!! It's not about porking troops and ordinance or killing hangers. It's about suicide bombers. Tell me how "We could DEFEND our bases." deals with that? There is no defense against someone willing to die to blow something up in the game. Anyone can do it (and many do) all day long.
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Offline RELIC

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Idea discussed at the con.
« Reply #188 on: July 09, 2006, 02:56:04 PM »
I guess bullets don't work against suicide porkers?  Mine do.
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Offline Waffle

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« Reply #189 on: July 09, 2006, 03:06:50 PM »
Still think if you get killed by your own ordinance blast - then no damage should be applied to what ever you hit. :)

Offline KTM520guy

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« Reply #190 on: July 09, 2006, 04:15:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NoBaddy
Here's another crazy idea!! How about understanding what he is trying to deal with!!! It's not about porking troops and ordinance or killing hangers. It's about suicide bombers. Tell me how "We could DEFEND our bases." deals with that? There is no defense against someone willing to die to blow something up in the game. Anyone can do it (and many do) all day long.


I do understand. Having magically re-upping strats and turning this game into Quake is not the solution. If some dolt wants to crash into a set of troop tents, let him. My guess would be that the number of suicide dweebs is pretty small at any givin moment. Don't punish those who have every intension of landing after a mission but for some reason can't. In Hitech's first post he mentioned a timer of 1 or 2 minutes. That is a very, very long time. Any good pork plane can get to the radar ring in 2 minutes.

Here is a pecfect example on how the propsed idea would have a negative effect on game play. Last night my squadies and I flew a large bomber mission into a medium airbase. Our intension was to drop hangers in order to take the heat off one of our bases. We gave ourselves plenty of time to get to a nice high drop alt. When we got close to the base we found that every plane in the list that was good for shooting down bombers was above us and waiting. We were going have to fight our way in but that's what B24s were made for. Fight your way in, drop ord, and fight your way out. We got in dropped our targets and all save one set of bombers got chewed up in the insuing meat grinder over the base. All that died did so within the proposed time limit. Only one squadie flew home to land.

If this new element had already been in effect, all our hard work would have been instantly reversed. If that were the case, why even up bombers at all? Why even try to pork troops in order to slow down the other countries steam rolling horde?
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Offline RELIC

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« Reply #191 on: July 09, 2006, 04:45:13 PM »
AMEN
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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #192 on: July 09, 2006, 04:49:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
...snip...

There are several things that I have advocated for several years.

1) Place a perk value on bombs [>500lbs].....snip.....
2) Recognize that various types of bombs were required for various targets. ....snip.....
3) Add some difficulty to bombsight calibration and some sort of randomizer .....snip.....
4) Bombers designed for level bombing should only have bombs released by the bombardier......snip......
5) Harden barracks and ordnance bunkers. ......snip.....
6) Harden both unmanned and manned AA....snip.....

My regards,

Widewing




This would be a great system if all players were experienced. However, I suspect it wouldnt work from a AH business standpoint because of the critical role bombers play in maintaining addiction as newer guys develop.

I've been in online flight sims for less than 3 years, and I had near absent ACM skill prior to AH2. I've thought about HOW my abilities moved forward, and I've seen MANY others follow the same path. I'd bet that most players move through these developmental stages as AH'ers:

1)The "this is REALLY cool" stage.
New guys try everything, and though they die alot they figure its because they're learning. They have no idea how hard it will be, but they keep trying and dying cause they can see it'll be a blast.

2)Try hard at fighters, dies all the time, looks for something else to do. Often finds can survive in bombers or GVs more easily, and can sometimes contribute to battles and bases that way. Keeps upping fighters, but dies more often than kills. Avoids balanced sectors because SA is still weak, and cant be sure why keeps dying.

3) Gets pretty good at bombers or GVs, enough so that may decide to stay with them for "career." Some keep trying fighters, and gradually learn the skills needed to stay alive and get kills.

4)Respectable fighter skills, but not a contender in tight ACM situations or 1v1s. Evasives and concepts still need work.

5) An established fighter jock who is now ready to learn the finer points. Sensei says that those who receive black belt are mature enough to realize that they are just beginning to learn their art -- and same here.



I firmly believe that bombers help players stay in the game, while they're learning the full range of what AH offers. If bombers are made less accessible or less effective, many new guys will drop out of the retention stream and be lost to AH.






This is all a long way to say that while Widewing's ideas would work well for the pool of moderately skilled players, I dont think they could work well for HTC. AH2 needs a continued stream of new players, and ANY step that reduces retention is a BAD idea for all of us too.






On further consideration, I think the best measures may be MOIL's suggested increase in AA defenses on bases. Making low level porking suicidal BEFORE the strats go down will require a change in tactics -- use bombs and release @1k alt to stay clear, use medium bombers to strat or even high alt ones. With stronger ack defenses, the hardnesses wouldnt need to change, because the ack alone would shift the balance adequately.

Best of all, from a retention standpoint, it would let lower skilled players get even more involved in the game -- they'd be able to pork as well as anyone, and would be more likely to have the needed patience for higher approaches.
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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #193 on: July 09, 2006, 04:58:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by KTM520guy
...snip....

Here is a pecfect example on how the propsed idea would have a negative effect on game play. Last night my squadies and I flew a large bomber mission into a medium airbase. ...... We gave ourselves plenty of time to get to a nice high drop alt. ...... We were going have to fight our way in but that's what B24s were made for. ......We got in dropped our targets and all save one set of bombers got chewed up in the insuing meat grinder over the base. All that died did so within the proposed time limit.


If this new element had already been in effect, all our hard work would have been instantly reversed. If that were the case, why even up bombers at all? Why even try to pork troops in order to slow down the other countries steam rolling horde?




Gotta say, this is an EXCELLENT point. KTM's group did exactly what makes gameplay best, and HTCs proposal would clearly have made the effort useless.

While this sortie may not be typical, it seems to me that any measure that discourages level bomber use is a bad idea -- for gameplay and for player retention reasons. And, from what HTC said at first, I dont think less level buff use was the intended result.

We'd adapt regardless, and after implementation the same mission might have been half fighters and half bombers. All the same, I'd suggest that stronger low level autoack would be a better solution to get the desired result.
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Offline NoBaddy

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« Reply #194 on: July 09, 2006, 05:33:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by KTM520guy

If this new element had already been in effect, all our hard work would have been instantly reversed. If that were the case, why even up bombers at all? Why even try to pork troops in order to slow down the other countries steam rolling horde?


In a word...NO. Had you bothered to ask, you would have found this isn't really intended to apply to level bombers. It wouldn't apply to guys that load up their F4U's to bomb a CV and pull up out of the ack. It would apply to the dweebs that climb to 15k in the fastest fighter they can find, dive past any and all opposition, bomb something and circle in the ack shooting stuff until death.

As for this being a Quake-like solution....well, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. It's to deal with Quake-like behavior.
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