Author Topic: IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"  (Read 3209 times)

Offline Gunslinger

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #105 on: August 02, 2006, 05:52:20 PM »
but your reply is based soley on sources from the ground......sources that benifit from this being a massacere.  

Journalists where not allowed near the colllapsed building, the one shown in the pic you posted is not the building in question.  Journalist where positioned in what is reffered to as stretcher alley

Injurys aside there is still NO blood on any of the victoms

You cannot explain why some of them are CLEAN, free of dust, and look like they've been dead a while.

You cannot explain why some of them are in FULL rigor mortis after only 7 or 1 hours (again depending on your source)

lastly I'd like to see your source where the IDF says no missles where fired from the area.  

PS the "green helmet" wasn't digging anyone out of any rubble as again he was wearing black and completly clean.  He was there to parade dead children around in front of the media.  That's all that he appears to be doing.

Offline Nashwan

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #106 on: August 02, 2006, 06:43:19 PM »
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Journalists where not allowed near the colllapsed building, the one shown in the pic you posted is not the building in question.


Of course it is. He's standing right by the building as the pass rubble out. Have you actually watched the video report? How about this one from Sky news, he's also right by the building:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-bowden_p18194,00.html#

What do you base this claim that journalists were not allowed near on?

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Injurys aside there is still NO blood on any of the victoms


I certainly saw blood on some of them, but again in a dry, dusty enviroment, people buried by rubble aren't likely to have a lot of blood visible.

How many shots of earthquake victims show lots of blood?

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You cannot explain why some of them are CLEAN, free of dust, and look like they've been dead a while.


Sorry, none of them look that way to me.

There's a photo of two of the dead children on the BBC news site. One is very dusty, the other fairly clean. But if you look at the cleaner girl, half her face is very dirty. This is entirely consistent if she was covered by bedclothes, for example.

Go to a site called globalresearch.ca it has a series of photographs from Qana (they aren't on the main page). The pictures look entirely consistent with survivors pulled from the rubble of a collapsed building, and I challenge you to look at them and claim otherwise.

Don't forget, the worse the injuries on a body, the less likely it is to make the news in the "MSM". The BBC, for example, would never show many of the injuries suffered.

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You cannot explain why some of them are in FULL rigor mortis after only 7 or 1 hours (again depending on your source)


After 7 hours? How do you know these pictures are from 8am when the press turned up, and not say 10am, when they were still brining bodies out?

And even 7 hours is easily long enough to develop rigor mortis.

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lastly I'd like to see your source where the IDF says no missles where fired from the area.


On the day.

"As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.

The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past. However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.
"
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtVty.jhtml?sw=qana&itemNo=745185


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but your reply is based soley on sources from the ground......sources that benifit from this being a massacere.


And the conspiracy theories emanate from people who weren't at the scene, and have a clear agenda.

So, of course, someone in Peoria who has never been outside the US has a better idea of what happened in the middle of the night in Qana than someone who was actually there?

A lot of journalists and camera crews went to Qana. How many of them, the foreign press who were actually there, are supporting the conspiracy claims? None.

So obvioulsy the man in Peoria knows better than the journalists who were there, too.

These conspiracy theories might have some credibility if they came from someone with some actual knowledge of the incident, but no-one who has any knowledge of the incident is making such claims.

Offline Gunslinger

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #107 on: August 02, 2006, 07:22:24 PM »
Some of the sources on the ground say the building collapsed NOT at 1 but later that morning.  The IDF says that specific building was not hit.  

I didn't see once in that video of them actually pulling anyone out of any rubble.  Again they let them film at the top of the hill but not at the building itself....at least not while they where digging bodies out.  

And again, I've only heard ONE person say the building collapsed at 1AM when everyone else is saying it happened in the morning at after 7.  It was shortly after 7AM when emergancy crews arrived and around 8AM when the newsies showed up.

That being said full rigor mortis does not set in that soon reguardless of temp.  Even in the video you posted one of the bodies had an arm almost fully extended and stiff.

Offline Elfie

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #108 on: August 02, 2006, 10:56:33 PM »
There were lots of rockets fired from in and around Qana, just not on the day of the airstrike. Just a guess, but that might be where the confusion came from concerning the IDF.

I dont see this as a consipiracy theory. I've seen lots of different pics and some of the stuff just doesnt add up.
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Offline Debonair

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #109 on: August 02, 2006, 10:57:47 PM »
lololol
damn, justa sec...

crapcrap crap.... :mad: :mad: :furious :furious :furious

any1 know how 2 post a gif when the filename dont end in '.gif'???
« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 11:02:00 PM by Debonair »

Offline bozon

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #110 on: August 02, 2006, 11:18:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
There were lots of rockets fired from in and around Qana, just not on the day of the airstrike. Just a guess, but that might be where the confusion came from concerning the IDF.

The attack was made around 1 am. Hizballa doesn't fire rockets that late at night and the attack was not of the "laucher hunting" type.

Plenty of rockets were launched from Qana. In one of the films IDF spokesman released you can see the launcher trucks park inside buildings. Any building which was observed or had other intel to have been used by Hizballa operatives has a death mark on it. It is not always bombed immediately for various reasons. The building next to the one which collapsed was such.
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Offline Elfie

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #111 on: August 02, 2006, 11:22:36 PM »
I was just talking about how initially, the IDF reported that rockets had been fired from Qana, then later clarified that they hadnt been fired the same day of the airstrike, but earlier.


Appreciate the info that you are able to give us Bozon. :)
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Offline straffo

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #112 on: August 03, 2006, 04:01:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
I googled for that. It seems to me that this event was most likely staged. Rigormortis doesnt even begin to set in until several hours after death and some of those corpses had full blown rigormortis which doesnt happen for 12 - 24 hours after death.


Hey mister Expert, you're incompetent.

And Rigor Mortis depend of the environement : think of the TEMPERATURE.

Offline bozon

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #113 on: August 03, 2006, 05:44:51 AM »
btw, here's the video IDF spokesman released of rocket fired from Qana and launchers hiding in civilian buildings. Again, this is NOT from immediately before the fatal air strike:
http://www1.idf.il/SIP_STORAGE/DOVER/files/3/55363.wmv

Houses that were seen when launchers parked in them, where rockets were pulled out of storage and loaded on the trucks or operatives got off the trucks and went inside, etc, are marked as targets and are attacked. In some cases at a later time.
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Offline Hawco

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #114 on: August 03, 2006, 08:48:28 AM »
Again, more denials and  half baked truths, starting to become very tiresome to be honest.

Israel-Firsters have no shame.

Read their posts on this board:
-- Don't discuss the issue, attack the "politics" of the author
-- Answer a question with many questions
-- Change the subject
-- Never admit you are wrong
-- Re-interpret plain English to mean something else
-- Always blame the victim of Israeli atrocities
-- Israelis are the only true victims
-- Accuse all critics of being an anti-semite or self-hating Jew

Offline Gunslinger

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #115 on: August 03, 2006, 08:57:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hawco
Again, more denials and  half baked truths, starting to become very tiresome to be honest.

Israel-Firsters have no shame.

Read their posts on this board:
-- Don't discuss the issue, attack the "politics" of the author
-- Answer a question with many questions
-- Change the subject
-- Never admit you are wrong
-- Re-interpret plain English to mean something else
-- Always blame the victim of Israeli atrocities
-- Israelis are the only true victims
-- Accuse all critics of being an anti-semite or self-hating Jew


The exact same thing can be said of the opposite.  No one wants to answer these questions and they just lead to more questions.

No one thinking that this was a set up or deserving of investigation has "changed the subject"  That was done early on when the palistinians where brought up.

These questions lead to questions and more questions as solid information is hard to come by

I don't see where we've been wrong

I lay blame where it is due.  If the area had been used as a launcing site for rockets and the population was significantly warned than it is a legitimate target.  The ones to blame are the ones launching rockets not at military targets but intentionally targeting civilians.  They are the ones that drew the wrath of the IDF onto that town.

You obviously havn't read the last 2 pages as the debate has been about the facts

Offline Red Tail 444

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #116 on: August 03, 2006, 09:00:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hawco
Think the world would be safer without ALL extremists, Islamics, Neo cons, Christians who think this is the rapture, the lot, the ones who advocate war and then send everyone else away apart from the ones they know and can protect, War is the biggest racket known to Man, nobody wins, apart from the rich few who make millions out of arms deals.
That's about as far as i'm going to go on the subject, it annoys me no end, becuase of war, I'm left 60% disabled, taking 3 different meds a day, numerous operations and phyiscal therapy sessions.
Has my sacrifice changed anything? Has anyones changed anything?
Nope, young men die, People at the top get rich from it, that's the bottom line in my book.
So i'm not an advocate of any side, I just want an end to senseless wars, people dying and people making money out of it.


Be careful, Hawco. With comments like the one you just made, you might cause some of these idiots to contact Swiftboat and challenge your claims.

Offline Gunslinger

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #117 on: August 03, 2006, 10:11:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Be careful, Hawco. With comments like the one you just made, you might cause some of these idiots to contact Swiftboat and challenge your claims.


I keep hearing this word "swiftboat" being brought up time and time again.  It's OLD get over it.  There's no one in here railroading anyone.  The facts of this case SCREAM to be examined as they do not add up at all.  It'd be alot easier if I could post the pics in question but they are inappropriate for this forum so I wont.

Maybe you could do somthing constructive like research (or make up) a link that has this whole thing ordered by Cheny with the bombs being sold and delivered by Haliburton in a plan concocted by Rove to help out in the upcoming elections.

Offline Hawco

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #118 on: August 03, 2006, 11:13:25 AM »
Love your signature gunslinger, just noticed it lol wtg sir !

PS. think the next person to get a visit from the  swiftboats is gonna be Republican Chuck Nagle INMHO

Offline Gunslinger

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IDF says "building collapsed 8 hours after the attack"
« Reply #119 on: August 03, 2006, 11:31:09 AM »
Thanks hawco



In related news, it's not hard to conceive this is blatent propaganda when it has been reported that hezbollah is controling the media on their side.


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CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson admitted that his anti-Israel report from Beirut on July 18 about civilian casualties in Lebanon was stage-managed from start to finish by Hezbollah. He revealed that his story was heavily influenced by Hezbollah’s “press officer” and that Hezbollah have “very, very sophisticated and slick media operations.”

When pressed a few days later about his reporting on the CNN program Reliable Sources, Robertson acknowledged that Hezbollah militants had instructed the CNN camera team where and what to film. Hezbollah “had control of the situation,” Robertson said. “They designated the places that we went to, and we certainly didn’t have time to go into the houses or lift up the rubble to see what was underneath.”

Robertson added that Hezbollah has “very, very good control over its areas in the south of Beirut. They deny journalists access into those areas. You don’t get in there without their permission. We didn’t have enough time to see if perhaps there was somebody there who was, you know, a taxi driver by day, and a Hezbollah fighter by night.”

Yet Reliable Sources, hosted by Washington Post writer Howard Kurtz, is broadcast only on the American version of CNN. So CNN International viewers around the world will not have had the opportunity to learn from CNN’s “Senior international correspondent” that the pictures they saw from Beirut were carefully selected for them by Hezbollah.

Another journalist let the cat out of the bag last week. Writing on his blog while reporting from southern Lebanon, Time contributor Christopher Allbritton, casually mentioned in the middle of a posting: “To the south, along the curve of the coast, Hezbollah is launching Katyushas, but I’m loathe to say too much about them. The Party of God has a copy of every journalist’s passport, and they’ve already hassled a number of us and threatened one.”

Robertson is not the only foreign journalist to have misled viewers with selected footage from Beirut. NBC’s Richard Engel, CBS’s Elizabeth Palmer, and a host of European and other networks, were also taken around the damaged areas by Hezbollah minders. Palmer commented on her report that “Hizbullah is also determined that outsiders will only see what it wants them to see.”



I'm not saying that these quotes are in response to this incident but laying out what appears to be SOP for media relations in south.