Author Topic: The night witches (Read 4333 times)

Mark Luper · « **Reply #150 on:** October 22, 2007, 09:08:18 PM »

Never got to fly a J-3, always wanted to. The closest I got to one was a PA12 SuperCruiser my dad flew for a few years. I got some stick time in it but not much, I was in my early teens then.

The last dual instruction I got was about 20 hrs in an Aeronca Champ. A 8BCN if I remember correctly. The instructor put a 85 Continental in it, it oringinaly had a 65. It needed that and more to get both of us off the ground during hot summer days. We ran with a half tank of fuel measured with a bobber on the cowling.

What I liked the most about the Champ was that it could be flown solo from the front seat.

The only aerobatic time I experienced was when HT took me up in his RV-8 one day. I was along for the ride and enjoyed it for a bit then started to get a little sick.

Mark

Toad · « **Reply #151 on:** October 22, 2007, 09:27:00 PM »

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B. Causal factors of the mishap:
(1) The narrative cause factors of this mishap are Determined to be:
(A) Aircrew factor - MP attempt to salvage overshooting approach led to
reduced eng stall margin, contributing to left eng comp stall.

She caused the compressor stall.

The bleed problem was minor; it is something that probably wouldn't be noticed unless there was a warning system monitoring it; I'm not sure of that as I'm not familiar with the F-14A NATOPS. It was not an emergency in and of itself, however. It just reduced the margin of error.

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Based on above analysis, AMB concludes although not sufficient alone to stall the eng, this malfunction, combined with reduced throttle setting and sideslip,contributed to left eng comp stall. component: directional control linear bleed

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Stall margin was already reduced up to 26 percent on left engine due to MCB system stuck in bleeds closed position.

This is next part is a key factor and isn't really addressed; she didn't need to do the single engine waveoff procedure:

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(CU) The left eng was found to be fully capable of producing normal power at impact. (14a)

If she had used both engines on the waveoff, and she could have, the story might have been just another tale to tell at the bar.

However, the report shows it was not engine failure or mechanical failure. Sorry.

MP stands for "Mission Pilot", Hultgreen.

Here's the bottom line:

B. Causal factors of the mishap:
(1) The narrative cause factors of this mishap are Determined to be:
(A) Aircrew factor - MP attempt to salvage overshooting approach led to
reduced eng stall margin, contributing to left eng comp stall. RAC II.
(B) Aircrew factor - MP failed to execute proper single eng waveoff
procedures. RAC II.

Now I see no point in discussing this further here as it is clearly a sensitive subject for you on a predominantly male BBS.

So I suggest you take this MIR over to the chick fighter pilot board and discuss it there.

If they are honest (and I think they will be) and if they are competent (which I think they are) they, your fellow women, will tell you that this accident was pilot error.

There's no shame in that; as I pointed out there's been an awful lot of male pilot error written into the history books.

Toad · « **Reply #152 on:** October 22, 2007, 09:33:05 PM »

Ah, open cockpit bi-planes are vastly overrated.

If you get a chance get someone to take you up in one of these. The view is magnificent and not blocked by a big ole upper wing and a forest of wires and struts:

33 used to be mine, 50 used to belong to my brother. This was taken out by the Golden Gate.

Great airplane; just a blast to fly.

Tigeress · « **Reply #153 on:** October 22, 2007, 09:36:47 PM »

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Originally posted by AKIron
You almost make it sound like a bad thing.

You always make me laugh!

TIGERESS

Tigeress · « **Reply #154 on:** October 22, 2007, 09:38:34 PM »

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Originally posted by Toad
Ah, open cockpit bi-planes are vastly overrated.

If you get a chance get someone to take you up in one of these. The view is magnificent and not blocked by a big ole upper wing and a forest of wires and struts:

33 used to be mine, 50 used to belong to my brother. This was taken out by the Golden Gate.

Great airplane; just a blast to fly.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! I think I just fell in serious love with your plane!!!!!!!!!!!

AWSOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've never seen it before. What is it? Is it a Navy trainer?

TIGERESS

Toad · « **Reply #155 on:** October 22, 2007, 09:41:27 PM »

BTW, you should go on back and get your ticket.

Just about every pilot goes through an initial period of channelized attention. I've heard it called "boresighted", "head up and locked", "tunnel vision" and a few other things. It's killed pilots, for sure. New ones, old ones, all kinds.

For almost everyone it kinda goes away as you become aware of the

multi-tasking involved in safe, successful flight.

You always have to be aware of it and you always have to guard against it because it can slip in on you at critical times as you probably noticed. Even for old dudes with thousands of hours. But if you're aware of it, you'll recognize it and you'll get your scan moving and your brain in gear and come out OK. It is, btw, one of the reasons commercial airliners have two sets of eyes and two brains monitoring the show.

Even that doesn't work sometimes. Ever listen to the CVR tape from the Eastern L-1011 crash in the everglades? Lost an airplane over a burned out gear down light. Boresighted. They were all male, btw.

Toad · « **Reply #156 on:** October 22, 2007, 09:47:11 PM »

That is the Fairchild PT-19 Cornell. About 12,000 or so made in three similar models (one with a radial, another like this with a canopy.)

About 100 remain flying with another 100 or so scattered around in bits and pieces on shelves that could eventually be restored.

Current price ~$60k for a good specimen.

This is, IMHO, the world's finest conventional gear trainer. Handling characteristics are superb. Fairchild designed the wing in such a way that when fully stalled, about 1/3 to 1/4 of the outboard ends of the ailerons are still functional. You have some roll authority when stalled. The only cable driven control is the elevator trim. All others are torque tube with ball bearing control ends. You can literally fly it with one finger of one hand on top of the stick. HUGE rudder; 25mph crosswinds are no problem, as the rudder is matched with a W-I-D-E main gear. 4 hours of flight to dry tanks. Performance just a little bit less than a C-172 on 9-10 gallons per hour. (Well, hey.. so it's heavy and has quite a bit of drag... it's almost perfect.

I taught both of my sons the rudiments of flight in that airplane. Easiest trainer I've ever seen for teaching someone.

Just a lovely, lovely thing, she is.

Toad · « **Reply #157 on:** October 22, 2007, 09:51:34 PM »

Although not as easy to fly for newbs, this one is without doubt the most secksie WW2 US trainer. Quite a bit more expensive now than a Fairchild and parts much harder to find. I think they only built about 1200 or so.

It's a bit nasty and unforgiving of those who try to salvage an overshot final without plenty of altitude and airspeed though.

Otherwise, it's pretty sweet.

Oh, yeah.. after the 5th turn in a spin it is also unrecoverable.

Ryan PT-22

Tigeress · « **Reply #158 on:** October 22, 2007, 10:05:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
BTW, you should go on back and get your ticket.

Just about every pilot goes through an initial period of channelized attention. I've heard it called "boresighted", "head up and locked", "tunnel vision" and a few other things. It's killed pilots, for sure. New ones, old ones, all kinds.

For almost everyone it kinda goes away as you become aware of the multi-tasking involved in safe, successful flight.

You always have to be aware of it and you always have to guard against it because it can slip in on you at critical times as you probably noticed. Even for old dudes with thousands of hours. But if you're aware of it, you'll recognize it and you'll get your scan moving and your brain in gear and come out OK. It is, btw, one of the reasons commercial airliners have two sets of eyes and two brains monitoring the show.

Even that doesn't work sometimes. Ever listen to the CVR tape from the Eastern L-1011 crash in the everglades? Lost an airplane over a burned out gear down light. Boresighted. They were all male, btw.

I kept it a secret. Considered it a fatal flaw. I multi-task with ease unless seriously stressed under panic. I would like to start flying again. I love it like crazy.

TIGERESS

Toad · « **Reply #159 on:** October 22, 2007, 10:14:40 PM »

Do it.

Find the right instructor and not necessarily some flight school.

There's a great old guy up here that teaches in a Citabria. He's got tons of hours in light taildraggers like that. Very thorough, knows his stuff and just carries on at YOUR pace until you sastisfy yourself and him.

Never known one of his students to fail a check, never seen one that wasn't a safe, competent pilot.

Find a guy like that.

Hell, my UPT instructor used to say that given enough bananas, he could teach a monkey to fly so none of us had to worry about getting our wings.

Go do it. Boresight is just another hazard of aviation that you will learn to look for and to avoid.

Most everyone did that; you can too.

G'luck!

lazs2 · « **Reply #160 on:** October 23, 2007, 09:24:41 AM »

I took flight training but didn't like it much.. I did fly ultralights for a while and really enjoyed that.. I like being out in the wind and flying by the seat of my pants.

The women who failed as fighter pilots should never have been allowed to exist... they got in on lowered standards.. not good for anyone.

tigress... I like to fly AH too. I don't fly near as much as you but... For all your superior multitasking.. you don't seem to be able to handle what is going on around you in the game... it would appear that every time you meet another fighter... it is a given that you will lose.

one example does not make a point but.. why are there so many men in the game... all the best are men... any person... male of female with a credit card can play. No one is being held back.. in fact.. you don't even have to identify yourself as female or male... What is stopping women from excelling?

lazs

Tigeress · « **Reply #161 on:** October 23, 2007, 09:27:46 AM »

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Originally posted by texasmom
You a pilot Tigress? Nice

TxMom,

Yes, I have cockpit time.

You really should conside trying out, even if only once.

"First Lesson" is quite inexpensive to lure you into and so darn exciting for a first timer! wooo HOOOOO

There is nothing in this world like driving a plane, in my experience.

TIGERESS

texasmom · « **Reply #162 on:** October 23, 2007, 09:49:06 AM »

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Originally posted by Tigeress
TxMom,
Yes, I have cockpit time.
You really should conside trying out, even if only once.
TIGERESS

Probably would be fun. I was a controller (a long time ago). The pilots always did seem like they enjoyed what they did.

Tigeress · « **Reply #163 on:** October 23, 2007, 09:59:24 AM »

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Originally posted by Toad
Do it.

Find the right instructor and not necessarily some flight school.

Go do it. Boresight is just another hazard of aviation that you will learn to look for and to avoid.

Most everyone did that; you can too.

G'luck!

Absolutely agree on the right flight instructor.

That is exactly the same advice I gave on the "Golf" thread here for a newbie golfer taking up golf for the first time. I am a long time golfer.

I never realized channelized attention syndrome was so prevalent...

In my case, it never happened while flying but did in other situations when overloaded with stress such as sometimes happens when I sailed aboard a coastal cruising sailboat with others. (I had switched to sailing with others in lieu of flying)

Things can go down hill in a blink of an eye. I was almost always elected to be the navigator (Coastal Pilot), and am USPS trained and well experienced for that, and have sailed for years along the Atlantic coastline and could handle all aspects of sailing the craft.

It's like if you have five things that are all individually critical to survival going on in real time, the mind triages as best it can and locks-on to the worst one in a supremely determined way to solve it even if it unsolvable at the time and thus loose "the bubble" on the others. I fight that when it starts happening 'cause I know what it is now and it can be quite deadly.

Seems to me to be borne taking responsibility very seriously, from inexperience and lack of reason for self-confidence, or unreasonable inability to let go of continuing to control a no-control event and switch to other events in progress. Sometimes its the other events that will kill you; not the one you are focused on.

G’Day

TIGERESS

Tigeress · « **Reply #164 on:** October 23, 2007, 12:23:28 PM »

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Originally posted by texasmom
Probably would be fun. I was a controller (a long time ago). The pilots always did seem like they enjoyed what they did.

You should get to know B2B, he was Army ATC too. SUPER guy! Luv'um ta pieces.
He might be interested in a squad, btw.

TIGERESS