Stop The War, Support Our Troops

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Hap


p.s.  Dred, if birthing babies or not, and marriage do not affect significantly ANY nation as a whole and at MANY levels, might as well close shop.  Those who cannot see that it is so, if they be thoughtful, will reflect and revise.  Pause and reflect.  It goes against the "lie" that there is nothing good nor bad but thinking makes it so.

Ok what significant effect has either issue had on this country?

If abortion were suddenly the "norm". Or if the entire country were to suddenly become gay ( am assuming you were referring to the gay marriege issue)
then yes I would agree

But other then for each side to slam their fists on the table and yell "I am for/against" this or that. Its not having a significant impact on the country.
While it may be an issue unless one is a religeous zealot they are certainly nothing that should be in the top 10.

There are far more issuues of greater importance then either subject.

As for myself I am pro choice but against calling gay couples "married" (for me its the word married)
But in the lrger picture of issues of importance I wouldnt vote on a candidate reguardless of where he stood on either issue but rather where he stood on other issues.


BTW the saying is "Nothing is truely right or wrong. It is only a common way of thinking that makes it so."

And that statement is true.
Go look at different cultures bother currently and historically and they all have different beleifs. What we see as wrong here and today is may be or have been perfectly acceptable then or there.
And vise verce.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Viking
I don't know Lukster ... If another nation actually attacks you I think you people will cowboy up like you did in '41. However if you attack another nation with questionable casus belli again, I think the result will be much the same as Vietnam/Iraq.

I dont know about that.

in 41 Japan actually attacked us.
Now what Germany was doing to us sinking ships is more akin to what terrorists do to us now.

Yes I know Germany declared war on us.
But So did Saddam.. if I remember correctly. Several times.

Now it seems like so long as no attack happens to us on our soil such as 9/11 there is no need to take the fight someplace else.


I'd have to look it up again but if I remember correctly almost 1,000 americans were killed by terrorists prior to 9/11. Yet we did next to nothing.
It wasnt untill something happened here that it became important.

Was making this very same point of to a friend of mine sometime back mentioning attacks on Americans prior to 9/11.
Her responce was "But it didnt happen here."

Its like if it doesnt actually happen in your backyard. It doesnt matter.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Hap
A while back, some banana Democrat from Beantown proposed we go to the moon in a decade and we did it.

Same tactic.

We desire it, devise it, and do it.

Who cares if we have to pay more for fluffy-wuffies at Wal-Mart.

If we discriminate between "won't be done," and "can't be done," then we get closer.

All the Best,

hap


p.s.  sorry if the absence of science dissapoints.  I'm ignorant generally and specfically when it comes to the sciences.

As I tell my kids.
"No such thing as cant. Only varying degrees of wanna
If you wanna do something bad enough. You find a way to get it done"

[lazs2]

oboe..  hydrogen cars are not a real solution.. it would help but it would not make us independent so far as even transportation.   It takes energy to create the hydrogen..  Also..  no one has made a practical one yet.   They will.. just not this year.

Now.. if you burn oil to make the electricity to make the hydrogen...  you don't solve much.

Real solutions involve nuke power plants and offshore drilling and exploration and opening up Alaska to drilling.

It also requires some relaxation of junk science EPA rules and regulations on refineries so that more can be built before the glorious hydrogen cars are built.   Most likely more hybrids and such will be built before any practical hydrogen car makes an impact on transportation.    You can't force this stuff.

What do all these things have in common?  

If you vote for democrats none of em will happen.   They have been consistent in fighting new nuke plants and new offshore drilling and exploration and for allowing the EPA to run amuck.

lazs

[x0847Marine]

Originally posted by DEMONSLAYER
ya we take our troops home.. every one calls us cowards have more terrorist attacks in the US and then 3000 people die all at once.

we haven't lost even close to as many troops as we did in Vietnam or ww1 and ww2 we cant just leave a war lol. i mean we went to war when they bombed pearl harbor. bombing the trade centers were the same thing but happened a lot faster.  i mean we have captured Saddam hussein and hanged him. personally i think we are doing a great thing for those people. if a democrat pulls us out of the war. we will be screwed big time.

Lets say we stay until the Iraqi .gov is allegedly strong enough to sustain itself... why wont it be viewed as a 'western  US / Israeli installed puppet', just like the Shaw?. Also like the Shaws govt, what is to stop people from all countries in the region (Saudi on 1 religious side, Iran on the other) from lining up by religious loyalties to reject any Western values and support the ousting of the US installed puppet democracy govt.. just like they did to the Shaw?

I have yet to see any reasons why a US installed govt in Iraq will fair better than the failed Iranian adventure.

Keep in mind that today, just like with yester-years Shaw govt fiasco, repubs & dems are still in charge and as inept as ever... more concerned with party agendas, pointing fingers and passing the buck than finding a solution based in reality. As long as 1 party is failing, the other can claim legitimacy for simply pointig it out by producing neat-o commercials.

When half the govt wants there to be disaster for political gain, how is anything supposed to get done right?

[oboe]

Did you read the link I provided on hydrogen cars, lazs?    I agree, its not a solution by the end of the year.   I think it is ulitmately the direction we should start moving, however.     Pure electric cars might become practical too.    We need to get the ball rolling, and then breakthroughs will start happening.

I agree too, it would be silly to generate hydrogen by buring oil.   People are beginning to experiment with wind turbines hooked up to industrial sized electrolysis units.    All you need to create hydrogen is electricity and water.   There are a number of ways to generate electricity without using oil.

Yes, I think  hybrid cars will become bigger in the short term.   I picture many plug-in hybrids that run on E85 as the most practical, short term solution.      This will probably catapault Toyota to be the number one worldwide auto maker, as they have quite a head start in hybrid technology.   Even Ford's Escape hybrid uses technology licensed from Toyota.

[john9001]

honda has a prototype hydrogen car and a working refueling station that uses solar cells to create the hydrogen.

[oboe]

Wow, Honda is another one to watch.  

I wonder how far we would get in a couple of years if we were spending $2 billion per week on advancing this technology instead of dumping it into Iraq.

Even the $9 billion in reconstruction funds that just plain went missing would've made an impact.

[Hap]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
BTW the saying is "Nothing is truely right or wrong. It is only a common way of thinking that makes it so."

And that statement is true.
Go look at different cultures bother currently and historically and they all have different beleifs. What we see as wrong here and today is may be or have been perfectly acceptable then or there.
And vise verce.

We disagree fundamentally.  Take solace, I think your side has won the day.  

And thanks for replying too.  I wasn't picking on you.  The notion that thinking contrues reality is just false.

You asked for an example from me to support my statement about "birthing" and it's importance.  It's self-evident.  So, I'll beg off on that one.

As to the saying, you can find it in Hamlet II, ii, about line 250.

Take Care,

hap

[lazs2]

oboe..  yes, progress is being made..  every bit of it is being made by private industry using the power of the free market.   That is good.

I do believe that the free market will provide solutions as they are needed.    

I think it is silly tho to put up roadblocks to current tech while the solutions are being worked out by industry... just as it is silly to mandate things and just throw a monkey wrench into the free market system.  

We need to continue to explore for and drill for oil to make us independent as well as build nuke plants until the market comes up with viable alternatives.

key word is viable..  no need to mandate half finished ideas that use half finished tech at enormous cost.

lazs

[Hawco]

Originally posted by lazs2
oboe..  hydrogen cars are not a real solution.. it would help but it would not make us independent so far as even transportation.   It takes energy to create the hydrogen..  Also..  no one has made a practical one yet.   They will.. just not this year.

Now.. if you burn oil to make the electricity to make the hydrogen...  you don't solve much.

Real solutions involve nuke power plants and offshore drilling and exploration and opening up Alaska to drilling.

It also requires some relaxation of junk science EPA rules and regulations on refineries so that more can be built before the glorious hydrogen cars are built.   Most likely more hybrids and such will be built before any practical hydrogen car makes an impact on transportation.    You can't force this stuff.

What do all these things have in common?  

If you vote for democrats none of em will happen.   They have been consistent in fighting new nuke plants and new offshore drilling and exploration and for allowing the EPA to run amuck.

lazs

Don't want to rain on your parade here, but you are wrong on about 3 of the above,
.1. We have got a product that produces it's own Hydrogen from distilled water.
.2 We we have made one, in fact we have done over 50 million miles in testing them on various engine units.
3. You do not burn oil to produce Hydrogen
4. We have various agencies, both Federal and State doing "proof of concept" as we speak.

[oboe]

Originally posted by lazs2
oboe..  yes, progress is being made..  every bit of it is being made by private industry using the power of the free market.   That is good.

I do believe that the free market will provide solutions as they are needed.    

I think it is silly tho to put up roadblocks to current tech while the solutions are being worked out by industry... just as it is silly to mandate things and just throw a monkey wrench into the free market system.  

We need to continue to explore for and drill for oil to make us independent as well as build nuke plants until the market comes up with viable alternatives.

key word is viable..  no need to mandate half finished ideas that use half finished tech at enormous cost.

lazs

I don't believe in the free market's power to introduce new technology, not as long as it makes more money by bilking the old.

You better read my link to China's breakthrough in wind power.   We are being left in the dust.

[john9001]

Originally posted by oboe

You better read my link to China's breakthrough in wind power.   We are being left in the dust.

but what will it mean?  will china produce so much cheap energy that they will not buy up the worlds supply of oil, thus causing a drop in oil prices?  or will china sell us the cheap windmills at one tenth the price we could build them and solve our energy problems?

some people are SO negative.

[oboe]

Imagine how the world would be different if China had developed the Pentium chip instead of Intel as a follow-on to the 486.    That's sort of what it will be like, within the context of the wind energy industry.   It means they will be able to manufacture more economical, more powerful wind turbines.   And wind energy/wind turbines is a fast growing industry these days.   It means THEY get the jobs instead of us - THEY get the money from sales, instead of us.

I'd like to see us lead the world in more than just military expenditures.   I'm concerned we're losing our edge in R&D.    Clearly this is an example of that.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Hap
We disagree fundamentally.  Take solace, I think your side has won the day.  

And thanks for replying too.  I wasn't picking on you.  The notion that thinking contrues reality is just false.

You asked for an example from me to support my statement about "birthing" and it's importance.  It's self-evident.  So, I'll beg off on that one.

As to the saying, you can find it in Hamlet II, ii, about line 250.

Take Care,

hap

Didnt think for a moment you were picking on me. I enjoy a good debate anyway.

Even if you were it wouldnt matter. I try not to take things too personally anyway.
A week from now I probably would only barely remember it. so what would be the point.