French Fighters

[Bruv119]

Originally posted by Krusty
Most French aircraft were underpowered and outclassed by even the poorest of US rides at the time.
 

The USAF in 1939 and 1940 weren't involved in the war so why neglect a plane that was seeing glimpses of the luftwaffe.  

I think the plane in question would be a nice addition to the early war planeset.  

Bruv
~S~

[wstpt10]

Originally posted by Karnak
D.520 was "up to par" for 1940, not 1939.  And we have rarer aircraft already in AH.

No kidding... Only 4 110 C4Bs were produced.

[TracerX]

Originally posted by Bruv119
The USAF in 1939 and 1940 weren't involved in the war so why neglect a plane that was seeing glimpses of the luftwaffe.  

I think the plane in question would be a nice addition to the early war planeset.  

Bruv
~S~

I agree Bruv, but for comparison sake, was the D.520 a great plane like the Hurricane was great, or like the P-40?  If it does not have the speed of the P-40, or the firepower of the Hurricane 2C, I don't see it getting much use.  

For special events, I want this plane regardless of performance.  It adds a dimention of flavor that cannot be duplicated by substituting another airplane.

[BlauK]

Morane
Curtiss Hawk




btw. I saw both of them fly in Duxford last summer

[TracerX]

Originally posted by wstpt10
So wrong... The D.520 was very well liked by its pilots, and was used into 1942 by the Vichy government. It could turn with a 109E, and rolled at an amazing rate. The only downsides to it where limited cannon ammo (60 rounds) and a low top speed compared to the 109E (530KMH).

Krusty, the H75 may be slow but it was an exceptional knife fighter.

Oh, and by the way, the Hawk 75 is is P-36.

530KMH = 329mph which is slightly faster than a Hurricane, quite a bit slower than a P-40.  Firepower was the same as the 109G's, not nearly as good as the Hurricane, or P-40.  

Additionally, this is was from Wikipedia:

Battle of France
The Groupe de Chasse I/3 was the first unit to get the D.520, receiving its first planes in January of 1940. These were unarmed and used for training. In April and May they received 34 production machines, which proved to be very popular with the pilots. In tests against a captured Bf 109E-3 (which didn't develop full power) the D.520 proved to be 20 km/h slower, but had better high speed manoeuvrability. The D.520 matched the turning circle of the Bf 109 but displayed nasty departure characteristics, spinning out of the turn repeatedly during the tests while the Bf 109 owing to its slats could sustain the turn on the edge of the stall easily.

Not the best testimony on turn performance.  This plane would be nearly ignored except for in the special events arena.  I can see why it has not been developed yet.  Not saying it shouldn't, just understand that it is low on the development que.

[wstpt10]

Originally posted by TracerX
530KMH = 329mph which is slightly faster than a Hurricane, quite a bit slower than a P-40.  Firepower was the same as the 109G's, not nearly as good as the Hurricane, or P-40.  

Additionally, this is was from Wikipedia:
 

Not the best testimony on turn performance.  This plane would be nearly ignored except for in the special events arena.  I can see why it has not been developed yet.  Not saying it shouldn't, just understand that it is low on the development que.

If you want to get nitpicky, the Hispano the D.520 mounted is more powerful than the MG/151 used on 109Gs and 109Fs, it has a higher muzzle velocity, and would be more likely to do significant damage to the target than the 151. On the other hand, the MG/131s that later Gustavs mounted were much more powerful than the 7.5mm guns on the Dewotine, and they were mounted along the centerline, no worrying about convergence.

It would be a fun plane for the early war arena, at least in my opinion.

[Vespasiano]

I think that it is quite sad only to be intersted by performances, even if it is important...
For your american planes for example, I really prefer your P-40 flown by flying tigers pilots than P-51 in Europe... it's quite easy to chose the best plane. In a simulation I aslo like using planes that weren't the best about performances but that won many victories with great pilots, it's an intersting challenge, more intersting on my mind than destroying noobs in a Corsair. If the only thing important in AH was speed and power there would not be other aircrafts than 109, P51, Ki 84, P47 or Corsair...

I still think that a squadron with D-520 could easely be dangerous for your great planes.
D-520 was not as obsolete as other french planes, I think speed performances weren't so bad, and fire power was intersting. Dewoitine Pilotes managed to destroy many ennemy aircrafts, even if they had not many time, and they didn't lose many of their planes.

Perhaps that's not the way of thinking of everyone, I am above all interested by history, I prefer flying a spanish Polikarpov I-16 against a 109 than a P-51 against japanese zero or fw190.

[Hazzer]

The Hawk fighter did very wel during the Battle of France being very agile,much more so than the P40,Molders was a victim to a Hawk in this period,it could out manoevre the 109 with ease,the d 520 also performed well in the latter stages of the Battle,later doing well in algeria for the vichy regime.

[Wmaker]

Originally posted by Krusty
The Polish built their own aircraft as well. So did the Nordic countries.

How many "Nordic" countries actually were involved in WWII combat operations? That leaves Norway and Finland. Norway defended itself the best it could for a little while with Gladiators from UK. Finnish Air Force fought many years with foreign equipment. In the very end of the Continuation War finns flew a couple sorties with VL Myrskys (a finnish built fighter aircraft) and managed to damage one soviet La-5.

So, the only nordic country air force that actually fought in the WWII flew just couple of its sorties with domestic combat aircraft. Practically all of the combat aircraft of the FiAF were foreign equipment.

So Krusty, do you have some more ferrytales for us?

[Krusty]

wmaker, I couldn't remember which ones had. I know they weren't very important, in the overall scheme of the war.

That's my point. A lot of countries made small-numbers productions of aircraft that had little to no impact on the war. Just because they had them doesn't mean we need them modeled in this game.

EDIT: And Sweden also made quite a few aircraft.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Krusty
wmaker, I couldn't remember which ones had. I know they weren't very important, in the overall scheme of the war.

That's my point. A lot of countries made small-numbers productions of aircraft that had little to no impact on the war. Just because they had them doesn't mean we need them modeled in this game.

EDIT: And Sweden also made quite a few aircraft.

Your argument is completly flawed  Sweden produced more fighter than Germany produced Ta-152.

[Krusty]

Actually your argument is flawed...

I never mentioned the Ta152, of which many hundreds were built (regardless of how many got to the front lines). Nor did I compare rare perk planes to common, planeset-hole-filling-suggestions.

Gee... Argentina made some aircraft as well! They MUST be in the next update, because they were SO vital to the war's outcome, right?

Right?

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Mon compatriote, prends les airs avec un P47-D25 aux couleurs Francaises

Take the skies with a French P47-D25

[Vespasiano]

Mais un P-47 ça n'a quand même pas la classe d'un D-520...
At least I prefer a Yak-9 of Normandie-Niémen...

How could we make american people understand how this great Dewoitine can be important for us ?


D-520 painted by a friend, from another forum :


(c) http://www.flyandrive.com/

[Krusty]

It's over-rated. It got a lot of kills.... against Ju87s and He111s. It was the equivelant of the 190D to the Germans -- too little too late. If you want a representative French aircraft, you should be asking for the M.S. 406.

Why doesn't anybody ask for the 406? Because it was completely outclassed. It was, however, the dominant aircraft in the French Air Force at the time.

EDIT: It would be like this game not having any US aircraft at all, and the most-requested US plane being the P-47M. It had a small role, only one unit (group?) used them, compared to hundreds of units not using them, and it didn't have a major impact on the war.