Author Topic: Triple Buffs Should GO  (Read 9515 times)

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #150 on: March 20, 2007, 02:54:31 PM »
Simple solution.
Faster the formations go the more spread out they get and easier to lose in a sharp turns.

1.This would allow them faster transit times to and from target.
2.Moves slaved guns on drones further out.
3. Bomb dispersion.

So if you want a tighter bomb group at target you have to slow to cruise speeds.
Instead of mil power.

Just a suggestion.

Bronk
See Rule #4

Offline Target2

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 947
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #151 on: March 20, 2007, 02:55:50 PM »
Krusty, while I don't disagree with your take on the speed of bombers, it is possible to make multiple attacks. I usually try to climb at least 3-4k above the formation. I will dive in from the 6 position and try to be better than 400 on my attack. I hit the lead ship first (especially if they are close to dropping). I then pass under the formation, zoom out front and up. I am then already out front. I gain a bit more alt and speed and repeat.  The only time I get nailed is when I am impatient, and don't allow enough alt to gain sufficient speed for the attack.
71 Eagle Squadron

Offline Simaril

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5149
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #152 on: March 20, 2007, 03:00:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Target2
Krusty, while I don't disagree with your take on the speed of bombers, it is possible to make multiple attacks. I usually try to climb at least 3-4k above the formation. I will dive in from the 6 position and try to be better than 400 on my attack. I hit the lead ship first (especially if they are close to dropping). I then pass under the formation, zoom out front and up. I am then already out front. I gain a bit more alt and speed and repeat.  The only time I get nailed is when I am impatient, and don't allow enough alt to gain sufficient speed for the attack.


Dead, right on.


Krusty, if you have trouble with killing bombers, or setting up the attacks, I just have to say it's not because of the game system. It's because you're not doing it right.
Maturity is knowing that I've been an idiot in the past.
Wisdom is realizing I will be an idiot in the future.
Common sense is trying to not be an idiot right now

"Social Fads are for sheeple." - Meatwad

Offline 999000

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 891
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #153 on: March 20, 2007, 03:02:18 PM »
Ok I fly a B17 occassionally..lol....I'm not sure what all the speed disscusion  is all about..... the B17 does about just over 200 mph ....215 level flight
you really can't pull hard on it with out ripping the wings off.
And if you ever reach  just over 300 it all falls apart.!
999000

Offline Sketch

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1351
      • http://www.arabian-knights.org
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #154 on: March 20, 2007, 03:03:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 999000
Hub, I'm not really sure what your problem is......I don't have a problem with anyones opinion.   However I do take exception to you trying to blatant slander a player...To say I fly my bombers as a "manned cruise missle...and then Kamikaze" is not true and you know better!!!....
It is my opinion that the vast majority  of bomber pilots fight like hell to get to and back from their target.
Krusty a small foot note...I have bombed the runway (usually annouced ahead of time) instead of taking out all the  FH out of respect to fighter pilots game play.


I am with you on this 999.... The other night I made way to an nme base and ended up just having to do a dive/drop/shot guns a blazin' because I knew I couldn't get a good run in.... but I did take 5 of them with me!  I have flown bombers with you, and have had you gun for me.  Gunning in a bomber is something that takes practice, that is all.  Some it comes quicker than others and some just can't shoot.... :D
Anytime I am in a bomber I fight all the way and do my best to get a good run in.  If you hear a guy screaming gun-ho it is me in a firery death spinning to the ground.  It's only a fleash wound! :aok
~Sketch~//~Arabian Knights~
Sketch's Gunsight Collection 2008
Sketchworks Arabian Knights Soundpack
~Oderint Dum Metuant~

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #155 on: March 20, 2007, 03:10:54 PM »
Simaril, every tour except this one (been flying planes without cannons this tour) I have had more B-24 kills than any other type. Going back probably for a year.

It's not that I don't know how to attack them. Even when I'm 10k directly over the enemy formation that's flying toward me, if I nose down and dive on the lead, I can only zoom forward, loop around and make another attack 2-3 times before the speed of the bombers puts them in front of my loop (thus, putting me back into a tail chase, from 10k alt and 300mph speed advantage to tail chase, all because the bombers are flying full frakkin' throttle).

Last Friday I was in a 262. I had B24s at 25k. I flew out in front of them several times in a row, past 3K, and turned around as fast as was possible. Before I was even 100 degrees into the turn (just past halfway) the bombers would scream past under my wing. That's how fast they fly: You can't even fly out in front of them and turn around before they're past you.

That's messed up, I don't care what you say. If bombers performed like this in the war, it would have been over in 1940 and Britain would have fallen totally and completely to the Ju88s and He111s bombing it.

Offline Simaril

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5149
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #156 on: March 20, 2007, 03:14:12 PM »
In all this discussion, one thing really stands out --

Lots of guys who've played the game for a long time are talking about bombers from their veteran's perspective alone.  I think many of us have lost sight of what it feels like to be a newb....and for newbs, or the hatchlings that grow from newbs, bombers are completely different things.


Unlike many of you, I've only been in the game for about 3 years, and I am not a natural gamer. I just love WW2 aviation, and that's what kept me in the game during the long months it took for me to attain survivable mediocrity in fighters. In those months, after being continually reminded of my incompetence in A2A combat, I could still feel like part of the big picture by upping buffs to hit strats or to be part of an attack. Without that ability to feel successful, I would likely have given AH up as being just too hard.

I submit that we ought to think of the bombing model more in terms of player retention. Looking only at their simulation accuracy is shortsighted, because the buff pilot of today may become the combat opponent of tomorrow...if we can keep him hooked long enough to get there.

I see what Zanth, Hub and others are saying about the context in which the bomb modes were made easier. But, I would argue that the FACT of their remaining easier has less to do with realistic bombing for the vets, and more to do with keeping players in the game while they negotiate the incredibly steep leaining curve.
Maturity is knowing that I've been an idiot in the past.
Wisdom is realizing I will be an idiot in the future.
Common sense is trying to not be an idiot right now

"Social Fads are for sheeple." - Meatwad

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #157 on: March 20, 2007, 03:16:46 PM »
Side note: The "realistic bombing" thing didn't work for everybody. One person couldn't hit even though he was doing it all right. He ended up contacting somebody at HTC and they told him "you can't do it with your hardware".

I know for a fact I did exactly as everybody told me. Word of mouth, reading webpages, forum posts, I followed them to a T, and my bombs would never even be close to target.

Offline Oleg

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1000
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #158 on: March 20, 2007, 03:22:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stoney74
OK, did some math.  150 TAS at 25,000ft is 100 IAS.  That's about 5 mph above landing speed for the B-17.  Add in the weight of fuel, the guns/ammo, and the bombs, and also take into account that they aren't flying with flaps down and I'll tell ya that they aren't flying a mission at 25K doing 100 IAS or 150 TAS.


Beat this. Your math dont work.

http://www.boeing.com/history/boeing/b17.html

Cruising speed: 150 mph
"If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. Don't complain."
Maya Angelou

Offline 4deck

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1520
      • (+) Precision
Thanx
« Reply #159 on: March 20, 2007, 03:32:47 PM »
Right off the boeng site

First flight: July 28, 1935 (prototype)
Model number: 299
Classification: Bomber
Span: 103 feet 9 inches
Length: 74 feet 9 inches
Gross weight: 65,000 pounds
Top speed: 287 mph
Cruising speed: 150 mph
Range (max.): 3,750 miles
Ceiling: 35,600 feet
Power: Four 1,200-horsepower Wright R-1820-97 engines
Accommodation: 2 pilots, bombardier, radio-operator, 5 gunners
Armament: 11 to 13 machine guns, 9,600-pound bomb load

Pay attention to the MAX Speed
Thanx
Enough said.

LA is dweeb ride. THere:p
Forgot who said this while trying to take a base, but the quote goes like this. "I cant help you with ack, Im not in attack mode" This is with only 2 ack up in the town while troops were there, waiting. The rest of the town was down.

Offline Tango

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1421
      • http://www.simpilots.org/
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #160 on: March 20, 2007, 03:44:26 PM »
Just looks to me like its a crusade to nerf bombers.

We had a P-47 pilot come in on us with about a dozen bombers IN a tight formation on our last HARM run. He made 2 high angle passes on us and killed 2 17s with no problem. Only thing that prevented him from coming back at us was not our speed or the lasers, but MWL flying escort.

That 47 pilot had no problem catching us and getting into position. He used something that most fighter pilots don't use, patience.
Tango78
78th Razorbacks
Historical Air Combat Group

Offline Oleg

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1000
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #161 on: March 20, 2007, 03:44:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Hit % from bomber guns was extremely low across the board.


Dunno about bombers, but average WW2 fighter had gunnery ~1%. Compare with ours.

btw, i agreed bomber's speed is a problem.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 03:48:02 PM by Oleg »
"If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. Don't complain."
Maya Angelou

Offline 999000

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 891
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #162 on: March 20, 2007, 03:55:51 PM »
Ok somebody help me here with bomber speed..a B17 flies level at about 215MPH in here  I  just read that a P51 level flight goes 440MPH  what does a p51 level flight do in the game here ??
999000

Offline Husky01

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4844
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #163 on: March 20, 2007, 03:58:22 PM »
like 400 somthin above 15k 999 i think
BearKats
9GIAP VVS RKKA

Offline Sketch

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1351
      • http://www.arabian-knights.org
Triple Buffs Should GO
« Reply #164 on: March 20, 2007, 04:17:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tango
but MWL flying escort.  


Well there's your problem!!  :D





J/K MWL  :t
~Sketch~//~Arabian Knights~
Sketch's Gunsight Collection 2008
Sketchworks Arabian Knights Soundpack
~Oderint Dum Metuant~