Senate majority leader: Iraq war is LOST

[FrodeMk3]

I'd like to say that Tedrbr still had it right in his previous posts.

The U.S. has been keeping Plans on scenarios in the middle east since Large deposits of oil were found there. During the cold war, we had plans to counter the Soviets in case they intervened or invaded. Why do you think we've kept such close ties to the Saud's this whole time?

You can't really draw parallels between this and Vietnam on a political level...It's not simply about keeping a country aligned with you politically.

This time, it's a(n) known source of oil, that's what we need for our economy. You guys all know, that if we get cut off of oil, We have massive problems in the U.S. I'm sure that we will never be completely out of the middle east, now that we're there.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
By August 2003, there were about 22,000 troops from 27 countries other than the United States in Iraq

Countries which had troops in or supported operations in Iraq at one point but have pulled out since: Nicaragua (Feb. 2004); Spain (late-Apr. 2004); Dominican Republic (early-May 2004); Honduras (late-May 2004); Philippines (~Jul. 19, 2004); Thailand (late-Aug. 2004); New Zealand (late Sep. 2004); Tonga (mid-Dec. 2004) Portugal (mid-Feb. 2005); The Netherlands (Mar. 2005); Hungary (Mar. 2005); Singapore (Mar. 2005); Norway (Oct. 2005); Ukraine (Dec. 2005); Japan (July 17, 2006); Italy (Nov. 2006); Slovakia (Jan 2007).

So Norge supported the cause but later gave up, betrayed its allies and left them to fend for themselves.

Too bad your 20/20 hindsight isn't foresight.

Oh hardly. We never supported your cause, however being allies we sent a small engineering unit and a field hospital to Iraq to offer our “moral support”. Mostly due to your ambassador who rather bluntly called in favors from WWII. Our contribution was completed when our forces went home. I.e. they had completed their assigned engineering tasks and the field hospital was no longer needed by the British. Norway operated in the “British sector”; we did not support US forces in their endeavors.

Norway publically fought against your illegal invasion of Iraq, both politically and in the UN being a member of the Security Council at the time (2001-2002). So I’m afraid we helped the French-German-Russian alliance to defeat your proposed UN resolution to legalize your invasion.

Originally posted by lazs2
laughing through the tears eh viking boy?

You are funny Lazs, but not THAT funny.

[john9001]

viking, the only time your country was a "allie" of the USA was when you needed the nazis kicked out.

[Viking]

If you say so. That works for me, since you never did kick the Nazis out of Norway. So I guess you owe us now.

[bj229r]

Thread to long to see if anyone posted this--if so, 1,000 pardons

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_insurgent_split

Iraqi insurgents now fighting each other

By TODD PITMAN, Associated Press Writer Fri Apr 20, 3:28 PM ET

MUQDADIYAH, Iraq - At least two major insurgent groups are battling al-Qaida in provinces outside Baghdad, American military commanders said Friday, an indication of a deepening rift between Sunni guerrilla groups in
Iraq.

U.S. officers say a growing number of Sunni tribes are turning against al-Qaida, repelled by the terror group's sheer brutality and austere religious extremism. The tribes are competing with al-Qaida for influence and control over diminishing territory in the face of U.S. assaults, the officers say. The influx of Sunni fighters to areas outside the capital in advance of the security crackdown in Baghdad may have further unsettled the region.

"This is a big turning point," U.S. Maj. David Baker said Friday in the Diyala provincial capital of Baqouba. "If they are fighting against each other, it's better than them fighting against us."

Even Sunnis who want to cooperate with the Shi-ite-led government are becoming more emboldened to speak out against al-Qaida. In Anbar province, more than 200 Sunni sheiks have decided to form a political party to oppose the terror group, participants said Friday.

The clashes have erupted over the last two to three months, pitting al-Qaida in Iraq against the nationalist 1920 Revolution Brigades in Diyala and Salahuddin provinces north of Baghdad as well as Anbar to the west, U.S. officers said. In Diyala, another hard-line militant Sunni group, the Ansar al-Sunna Army, is also fighting al-Qaida, they said.

"It's happening daily," Lt. Col. Keith Gogas said Thursday in an interview at an Army base in Muqdadiyah, 60 miles northeast of Baghdad. "Our read on it is that that the more moderate, if you will, Sunni insurgents, are finding that their goals and al-Qaida's goals are at odds."

American commanders cite al-Qaida's severe brand of Islam, which is so extreme that in Baqouba, al-Qaida has warned street vendors not to place tomatoes beside cucumbers because the vegetables are different genders, Col. David Sutherland said.

Such radicalism has fueled sectarian violence in Iraq and redrawn the demographics of many mixed Sunni-Shi-ite towns in Diyala, where tens of thousands of Shi-ites have been forced to flee large population centers.

Previously 55 percent Sunni, 45 percent Shi-ite, Baqouba — where rival insurgents also have clashed — is today 80 percent Sunni and 20 percent Shi-ite, Sutherland said.

The rift among insurgents has also been sparked by reports that some militants have been negotiating with the government and U.S. officials, who are trying to draw Sunni groups away from al-Qaida.

Iraqi police and security forces — not Americans — have been negotiating with 1920 Revolution Brigades fighters, who have said "they want some help against al-Qaida," Baker said.

"That's a plus for this place, and we're going to try to exploit that," he said. "We're not making allies with anybody ... but we are monitoring what's going on."

American officers say the clashes have weakened the insurgency. In the last month in Diyala, 1920 Revolution Brigades fighters eased up attacks on Americans, largely turning their guns on al-Qaida, Baker said.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Viking
Mostly due to your ambassador who rather bluntly called in favors from WWII.  

Originally posted by Viking
If you say so. That works for me, since you never did kick the Nazis out of Norway.

Which was it?  Either we helped Norway in WW2 or we didn't.

 Norway's coalition to pull troops from Iraq  
The Associated Press

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2005
 
OSLO: The left-leaning coalition preparing to form Norway's next government said Thursday it planned to withdraw Norwegian troops from Iraq and from U.S.-led operations in Afghanistan.
 
The three-party Red-Green bloc, which is set to take power next week, also said it would raise taxes and allow continued oil exploration in the fragile Arctic ecosystems of the Barents Sea.
 

Hmmm...  seems more political than just a job finished...

[Viking]

That report is factually wrong and misleading. We still have troops in Afghanistan. More now than ever before in fact. We DO support your actions in Afghanistan.

[Holden McGroin]

Source: Deutsche Presse Agentur (DPA)

Date: 16 Sep 2005
Norway to withdraw troops from Iraq
Oslo (dpa) - Norway's incoming premier Jens Stoltenberg has told U.S. President George Bush that he will withdraw the 20 Norwegian soldiers stationed in Iraq, the NTB news agency reported Friday.

Stoltenberg made the announcement when the U.S. president rang him to congratulate him on his tripartite red-green alliance's win in Monday's parliamentary elections.

Stoltenberg, 46, will take over from outgoing Prime Minister Kjell Magne Bondevik, who has governed since 2001, in mid October. dpa tb pmc
   

Okay, so IHT was wrong.  How's the DPA?  Seems the election, the withdrawl, and the job finished all happened at once.

[Viking]

Norway had a lot more than 20 soldiers in Iraq in 2003. Those 20 where those left to train the Iraqi police force, all the others had already left.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Viking
Norway had a lot more than 20 soldiers in Iraq in 2003. Those 20 where those left to train the Iraqi police force, all the others had already left.

I thought you said Norway didn't support the effort?  ah... but then you said although you didn't support it, you supported it.

Oh hardly. We never supported your cause, however being allies we sent a small engineering unit and a field hospital to Iraq to offer our “moral support”.

You could run for US president...

[Viking]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I thought you said Norway didn't support the effort?  ah... but then you said although you didn't support it, you supported it.

We supported (and still do) your actions in Afghanistan, so did the UN. We have never supported (in the meaning of agreeing with what you do) you in Iraq, but since we are allies (and since you’ve blackmailed us) we have sent a token military contingent to Iraq. Helping a friend even if you don’t agree with what he is doing …. Is what a good friend does.

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You could run for US president...

No … I don’t think so.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Viking
No … I don’t think so.

Nothing stops you from running, you just couldn't serve.  

Accessory to a crime is still a crime... saying you never agreed with robbing the jewelry store, even though you fenced the merchandise doesn't give you much moral superiority.

[Viking]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Nothing stops you from running, you just couldn't serve.  

Accessory to a crime is still a crime... saying you never agreed with robbing the jewelry store, even though you fenced the merchandise doesn't give you much moral superiority.

True. I was against any involvement in Iraq. The Iraq support also contributed to the fall of our centrist government at that time leaving the road open for a socialist leftist government. I’ll never forgive Bondevik for that.

[Bodhi]

this thread needs to be closed.

[ghi]

Originally posted by john9001
viking, the only time your country was a "allie" of the USA was when you needed the nazis kicked out.

  USA intervention just delayed the birth of European Union with 50 years, and created the Red Comunist Empire   ,
  Hitler was  mad and sick ,he wouldn't have last long anyway,but he united Europe mostly peacefully , and now the relations  betwen Euro  and Russia, are not better than they were in 1941,