The God Arguement

[McFarland]

Originally posted by xNOVAx
Watch this.. Fascinating stuff.. I'm reading the book right now and it goes more in depth than the program, but it's definately worth watching..

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

Ah, yes,  the Elegant Universe, I watched that entire show, once when I was 13, once when I saw it again on TV, and then once last semester in Chemistry 2 as a TA, and then in my Chemistry 1 class, I wish I could afford to buy it. I am now 16, and I study Physics and all other sciences whenever possible, I have highschool Chemistry and Physics textbooks, and a college Biology textbook. And I still have unwavering faith in God and Jesus. I know God created the Earth, and that we are just beginning to understand some of those concepts of how he did so now. I also know we will never fully understand it, as the end will come before we do. I also know that no one man can understand all the secrets of the earth.

[phookat]

Originally posted by SirLoin
Proof God didn't create the universe...

The Bible..The infallable word of God states>>>The sun revolves around the earth.

So he created the earth in seven days but failed to notice everything spins around that big glowing orange ball?

Yeah, a slight oversight there.

PS- I am gonna shoot you down, you mother****er!!

[Donzo]

Originally posted by SirLoin
Proof God didn't create the universe...

The Bible..The infallable word of God states>>>The sun revolves around the earth.
 

Where does it state this?

[phookat]

Originally posted by McFarland
I know God created the Earth

You don't know.  You think you know.  No one, including you, can prove that God created the Earth.  By being certain, by refusing to question yourself, you open yourself up to the possibility of conmen taking advantage of it.

[McFarland]

God is not a conman. I also don't think money is something to want.

[Donzo]

Originally posted by phookat
You don't know.  You think you know.  No one, including you, can prove that God created the Earth.  By being certain, by refusing to question yourself, you open yourself up to the possibility of conmen taking advantage of it.

If you were taking a walk through the woods and found a piece of wood in the detailed shape of a toy sailing ship would you think that it was just a piece of wood that formed in the very detailed shape of a toy sailing ship?  Or would you think that someone or something had carved it and it found its way, somehow, to the place you found it?  If so, could you prove that?

[phookat]

Originally posted by Donzo
Where does it state this?

I believe you are correct that it doesn't state this explicitly in the Bible.  There are some passages that indicate "the foundations of the earth" and "the earth doesn't move", and "the sun stayed in one place in the sky for an hour", things of that nature, which show that the writers of the Bible (and most everyone else before Galileo) thought the Earth was the stationary center of the universe.  I think the reason it wasn't explicitly stated is that it was too obvious.  Of course the Sun goes around the Earth, that doesn't need to be revealed to you.  On the contrary I think the lack of a description of the Helio-centric solar system in the Bible is very telling.

[phookat]

Originally posted by Donzo
If you were taking a walk through the woods and found a piece of wood in the detailed shape of a toy sailing ship would you think that it was just a piece of wood that formed in the very detailed shape of a toy sailing ship?  Or would you think that someone or something had carved it and it found its way, somehow, to the place you found it?  If so, could you prove that?

Here's a good example on someone who has been conned, in this case probably by Ray Comfort.

[Yeager]

a bumblebee does not understand mathematics, therefor it can fly.
====
A flying bumblebee is pure mathmatics.

[Donzo]

Originally posted by phookat
Here's a good example on someone who has been conned, in this case probably by Ray Comfort.

Conned? No.
It is an interesting thought exercise.

Do you have an answer to the question I posed?

[phookat]

Originally posted by McFarland
God is not a conman.

You don't know that either.  Don't think that you know God's mind.  In any case, I was referring to human conmen.

[McFarland]

No I don't know his mind, why he created me, why he put the stars in the sky, but I know I can trust him.

[Donzo]

Originally posted by phookat
I believe you are correct that it doesn't state this explicitly in the Bible.  There are some passages that indicate "the foundations of the earth" and "the earth doesn't move", and "the sun stayed in one place in the sky for an hour", things of that nature, which show that the writers of the Bible (and most everyone else before Galileo) thought the Earth was the stationary center of the universe.  I think the reason it wasn't explicitly stated is that it was too obvious.  Of course the Sun goes around the Earth, that doesn't need to be revealed to you.  On the contrary I think the lack of a description of the Helio-centric solar system in the Bible is very telling.

Can you elaborate on these passages you speak of?

[phookat]

Originally posted by Donzo
Conned? No.
It is an interesting thought exercise.

Do you have an answer to the question I posed?

Sure, we can discuss this.  The answer is as follows.  A toy boat on the shore doesn't exist in isolation.  It exists in concert with your own experience and knowledge of toy boat building factories that you can visit and have evidence for.  The evidence for a factory is not the boat itself, but the factory that you can visit where you can see step by step how the boat is made.  Also, you know of no natural process that reasonably (and with evidence) explains toy boats.  So you conclude that to the best of your knowledge, some intelligent designer made the toy boat.

Next you'll want to talk about the perfectly designed banana, no doubt.

[phookat]

Originally posted by McFarland
No I don't know his mind, why he created me, why he put the stars in the sky, but I know I can trust him.

No you don't.  If you don't know his mind, you don't know that you can trust him.