Author Topic: Japanese debate on Nuclear Bombings  (Read 4745 times)

Offline Boroda

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Japanese debate on Nuclear Bombings
« Reply #90 on: July 06, 2007, 10:04:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
I used Wikipedia because it was convenient. Milo posted another source that backs up the Wiki source. Generally speaking, you can find sources that back up Wikipedia especially in regards to WWII history.

If you don't like Wikipedia as a source, then find one you do like and post it. :)


Once I posted my own translation of an article about Manchurian Operation from "Great Patriotic War, the Dictionary", published in 1985, here on this board. This source is much more reliable then some moron's post in a "free" wikipedia. I noticed "some" bias (you see i still try to be polite) in historical articles there, and Soviet point of view usually gets edited off even when you add it as an alternative.

Someone posted an article about Second Pacific Task Force commander, calling him Zinoviy Rozhdestvenskiy...! Next step will be Vladimir Ilyich Lennon.

Soviet sources estimate Kwantun Army as at least 1.3 million people. Compare it to 30-50 thousand involved in "Husky" in 1943. (sorry again - tomorrow i'll probably look for Bradley's book to say exact numbers).

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #91 on: July 06, 2007, 10:07:41 PM »
Where's Hari Seldon when you need him?  ;)
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #92 on: July 06, 2007, 10:16:30 PM »
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Originally posted by AKIron
Where's Hari Seldon when you need him?  ;)


Yes, psychohistory is a good word here :D

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #93 on: July 06, 2007, 10:22:14 PM »
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This source is much more reliable then some moron's post in a "free" wikipedia.


If someone posts incorrect information in Wikipedia the next person to come along can correct it.

I saw some where that the Kwangtung army numbered about 1.5 million men before the Pacific war started. After that, the Kwangtung army was slowly robbed of men and material to fight the Pacific war.
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Offline AKIron

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« Reply #94 on: July 06, 2007, 10:25:57 PM »
A source that is subject to debate would seem to me more credible and/or reliable than one not. I guess all accounts of history are subject to debate. The Internet just makes things happen faster.
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Offline Boroda

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« Reply #95 on: July 06, 2007, 10:51:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
If someone posts incorrect information in Wikipedia the next person to come along can correct it.


Yess, correcting any point of view that contradicts with current Party Line in the West. That's so true! We need to make a Wiki-Squad just to add Soviet POV as alternative material there.

Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
I saw some where that the Kwangtung army numbered about 1.5 million men before the Pacific war started. After that, the Kwangtung army was slowly robbed of men and material to fight the Pacific war.


IIRC Soviet sources say 1.3 million for Aug 1945, after 1.6 million in 1940, but I may be wrong. "One and a half million Kwantun army" is one of the things i remember from "Unknown War" TV series. There was a full episode (21st out of 22 IIRC) about Manchurian operation.

Another interesting thing: in September 1945 Japanese govt asked Soviet side to keep Japanese POWs as long as they can, because there were no food and resources on the Islands for them... Funny, isn't it?

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #96 on: July 07, 2007, 12:39:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Yess, correcting any point of view that contradicts with current Party Line in the West. That's so true! We need to make a Wiki-Squad just to add Soviet POV as alternative material there.

 


Umm
One minor detail.

There is no more Soviet point of view :)

Sheesh. Sometimes your as bad as some southerners that are still fighting the Civil war.

Your side lost. There is no more Confederacy, and there is no more Soviet Union.
Get over it and move on LOL
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #97 on: July 07, 2007, 04:37:43 AM »
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Another interesting thing: in September 1945 Japanese govt asked Soviet side to keep Japanese POWs as long as they can, because there were no food and resources on the Islands for them... Funny, isn't it?


I don't believe that for a second. No, blatant lies like that are far from funny.

The USSR kept PoW's from both Germany and Japan after the cessation of hostilities...which is WRONG. I don't know about the Japanese prisoners, but I suspect they didn't fare any better than the German prisoners, thousands of whom died in captivity.

You can't or won't provide any source(s) to back up any of your rediculous claims. Yet you attack the sources provided by others as rediculous and fraudulent.

My country and yours have done things that are wrong. When I find out about things my country has done, unlike you, I can see that it was wrong. You just keep spouting the Communist Party line like some broken record.


I'm done talking to you, seriously.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2007, 04:42:50 AM by Elfie »
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Offline Slash27

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« Reply #98 on: July 07, 2007, 04:52:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Another interesting thing: in September 1945 Japanese govt asked Soviet side to keep Japanese POWs as long as they can, because there were no food and resources on the Islands for them... Funny, isn't it?


Where's the mass grave?

Offline Grendel

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Japanese debate on Nuclear Bombings
« Reply #99 on: July 07, 2007, 05:49:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 68ROX
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
BTW, Soviet Air Force bombed Berlin for the first time in Summer 1941.

An amazing feat, considering the war with the USSR didn't begin until June 22 of that year...with the Luftwaffe destroying over 90% of then operational aircraft in the first few days of the offensive.  With total air superiority on the front by the Luftwaffe, you are saying that SOVIET BOMBERS (at distance far exceeding a Tupelov's range) bombed Berlin?


Indeed Soviet bombers were bombing Berlin, Königsberg and other German targets during summer/autumm 1941. They used DB-3s, Yer-2s, Pe-8 and IL-4s. Information about those raids can be found easily with google search.

And somehow, seems that Berlin was not out of reach of their bombers range :)

Oh, and Soviet Air Force had many more planes than just the Tupolev factory's planes.

Offline MiloMorai

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« Reply #100 on: July 07, 2007, 06:48:50 AM »
Boroda, had a Russian friend stop by last night. Before we went out, I had her read some of your posts. She started to chuckle and by the time she had finished I had to hold her in the chair to stop her from falling off it. The tears of laughter could have floated a battleship (not a Russian one though).

She went on to say that there are still some around that still believe all the brainwashing propaganda.

Offline -Concho-

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Japanese debate on Nuclear Bombings
« Reply #101 on: July 07, 2007, 07:53:49 AM »
In reading this I'm yet to see Boroda counter one of Milo's points.

Boroda I'm behind you bro.  

Don't listen to the brainwashed dweebs on this board because not a single one of them have a grip on history or have the extensive library or access to information you have.  

Beacuse of you, Boroda, Russia will continue to be the pilliar of freedom, trade, and military power that they have been throughout the ages.

Keep on rocking in the free world!

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #102 on: July 07, 2007, 10:43:48 AM »
Concho, you're evil. You know that don't you.
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Offline -Concho-

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« Reply #103 on: July 07, 2007, 11:03:07 AM »
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Originally posted by Maverick
Concho, you're evil. You know that don't you.


aye,  :D

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #104 on: July 07, 2007, 11:36:50 AM »
While some of Boroda's poking was tongue in cheek, it's interesting to see many of the myths and legends found in his books are countered by myths and legends in others' books.

Myths and legends. No nation is going to publish history books for the young that say their lineage is full of cowardly, dumb, wrong-headed moves. Every nation is full of goodness and morality - and doing their good deeds with God on their side.

History books are great for propping up things and collective egos. Reading the unvarnished words of the people who made history is more informative, though.

There is an old Stalin quote about the war that says Britain provided the time, America provided the money and Russia provided the blood. Boroda, politicians or history books aside, 80 Soviet soldiers died for every American soldier in the fight against Germany. That fact should not go unsaid or unnoticed. Only on the eastern front did Einsatzgruppen forces follow combat troops to kill civilians.

The ground war didn't go well for the Allies until 1943. In every fight where German and Allied forces were closely matched, Germany prevailed. The US waited years to amass an overpowering force after the hard lessons of those early fights. The Soviets didn't have the same luxuries of time and geography. They were being slaughtered in a brutal frontal attack.

That may explain why a Russian may bristle when reading others write that "they" won the war in Europe.