Author Topic: Idea to encourage returning home alive (Read 3281 times)

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #30 on:** July 09, 2001, 10:50:00 PM »

Not worth it. This is pointless.
-SW

[ 07-09-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #31 on:** July 09, 2001, 10:56:00 PM »

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Originally posted by Kweassa:
I thought this was a "SIMULATION" game.
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You're right, but the emphasis should be on simulation "GAME"[/b] and not "SIMULATION"[/b] game.

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Yeah, it's a game, so we may not be able to simulate "EVERYTHING" "CORRECTLY", but we sure do know HTC tries to do so as much as they can, and us fans demand as much realism as possible in regards to current technical conditions.

I hardly think that forced downtime when you don't return to base is realistic. As a simulation of WW2 combat aircraft, I expect the fidelity of AH's flight models, weapons ballistics, handling, etc. to be as technically realistic as possible. These are things that HTC can attempt to simulate acccurately. But how can they possibly model death itself accurately? How is one minute in the tower vs. no time in the tower somehow a more realistic depiction of lifelessness? Please.

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You may not be able to "DEMAND" somebody else to fly around realistically, (did Pepe 'demand' anything to anyone?) but I'm pretty much sure we all can "SUGGEST" something that might encourage the tendencies of on-line pilots to match more closely to the tendencies of real wartime pilots, no? After all, this is a "SIMULATION". Is this idea harming anyone(like attacking their favorite plane of use)?

You're nitpicking semantics here. Regardless of whether Pepe suggested, demanded, cajoled, pleaded, whined, begged, decreed, announced, or hollared this suggestion, the fact that it would be a poor gameplay addition remains.

Also, I think you're really misunderstanding the nature of Aces High. It is not a flight simulation. Microsoft Flight Sim is a flight simulation. Aces High is a multiplayer online game featuring WW2-era combat airplanes with high fidelity flight models. There's a difference. How can you argue for "realistic" gameplay in the main arena as players fly 109s against 190s, Spits against Typhoons, and P-47s against P-51s?

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I don't think so. If any kind of suggestion and ideas are always treated as useless "solutions to problems which do not exist", why bother expecting HTC to upgrade planes and stuff in the first place?

Now this just doesn't make any sense. We expect HTC to upgrade and introduce planes because doing so is essential to a multiplayer game featuring WW2-era combat aircraft. What we don't expect is change for its own sake (that is, change which offers nothing new), or change which actually diminishes the quality of gameplay. Pepe's suggestion falls into the latter category. It's neither needed nor wanted by a large number of players, its inclusion will undoubtedly aggravate many of them, and it in no way adds a sense of realism or fairness.

It's a solution to something that wasn't a problem in the first place.

-- Todd/DMF

Kingonads · « **Reply #32 on:** July 10, 2001, 01:18:00 AM »

I am just throwing in my 2 cents. I am tired of seeing suicide fighters and bombers knowing they will never get back just for a lowsy kill of a cheap plane that doesnt hurt anyone.... I think that they should perk every plane except early war planes like the Spit V, A6M5, LA5, C202, and P38 and P47D11.
This way U will take more care flying a plane. I am not big on the perk everything Ideah but I HATE to see STUPID dogfighters who just go for the all mighty furball there is more to the game then that, I hardly ever see a bomber any more let alone Large bomber raids to destroy HQs and Citys U might as well take all the other stuff out and just make a 3 feild arena and just call it FURBALL. where everyone can just go and fight it out over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over....... U get the ideah. I am just throwing in my spare change.

Hodo

Pepe · « **Reply #33 on:** July 10, 2001, 01:58:00 AM »

OK, I think I feel the need of taming the fire. So, here I am, armed with a big bucket of gasoline.

I think (and it's my personal opinion) that a majority of us are flying here for the "simulation" side of this game. I can cite Secret Weapons of the LW as a darn funny game, but I do not enjoy it the same as AH. Why? Two main points:

a) I like the "being there" sensation. The closer, the better (of course no physical effects

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b) I like no AI around, as much as possible.

My suggestion falls entirely into the a) point. I do not want to impose anyone anything, I even have no means to do it (this is Htc.'s property), but as Zigrat says, some behaviours (mine included, guilty as charged) just kill the sensation (often at the same time assuring mutual death by virtual suicide). I like AH as it tries to simulate actual conditions for combat. And as long as an historic fact, Kamikazes do not annoy me per se, it's just when it's too numerous.

I think suicide tactics weight far too much currently, and here is where b) point comes along: when I say no A.I. is because I like the impredictability of a rational, intelligent human being. It adds variety, challenge. Suicides falls quite a bit away from this field. For me, this is just not right. It is not "simulation" it's plain gamey. No fun for me. Again, not trying to impose or to talk in the name of others, just stating that for me, that is not right. So I think I am when I suggest something to counter.

No pun intended to anyone, It would be wonderful if everybody is happy everywhere. The problem is that all of us have different tastes, so some kind of common ground has to be found. THIS is precisely Htc.'s job. I am not upset when lazs (for instance) ask for a permanent furball paradise. I am not upset, also, when somebody criticize my points, dialog is always enlightening. It's good for me (as a player) to have all kind of people throwing away ideas. As I said, Htc. will sort out. At the time being, the are making a hell of a job with this (I am a paying member from the beginning), so they get my vote as "sort agents". As long as they can handle the feedback, the more, the better. Just keep the discussion in these terms.

Cheers,

Pepe.

Fokker · « **Reply #34 on:** July 10, 2001, 02:52:00 AM »

It is a good idea to encourage pilots to stay alive and return to base. There is a way to make incentive for this without taking anything away or limiting spawn etc.

Give pilots who return to base a significant perk bonus. When we get more perk planes that should become a good reason not to kamikatze very often.

Respawning from neighbouring fields is something a wise pilot do when origin base is vulched. You dont need to force this on people, but newbies can need some education on why they should do that.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #35 on:** July 10, 2001, 03:37:00 AM »

Those that feel it is important to return to base will. Those that don't... may or may not. Why this is a problem for anyone... I have no idea. This is coming from someone that would rather return to base than not.

For those of you wanting immersion.. focus on what can be truly immersive. Stay away from enemy bases. There is ZERO things that are even remotely realistic anywhere near an enemy base. ZERO. Defend or patrol. Its definately what you are looking for.

Of course, this means you are going to have to fly higher and longer. It means you run the risk of not running into an enemy fighter every sortie. It means the game may become a little less fun. But it also means more accuracy and realism. That is what you wanted... right?

I mean, everybody posting pro of this "encouraging" <how is this different from "forcing"?> people to return to base is willing to sacrifice action in return.. right? None of the people posting pro of this will ever complain that someone is flying a Runstang.. right? Nobody that gets there way on this will quit one month later because the arena just isn't as much fun anymore... right?

Its time people started thinking about the real potential consequences of making the game "more fun for them"... even if its at the risk of making it less fun for others. When you impose restrictions.... you do that very thing. You impose restrictions to get people to behave differently than they want. You impose restrictions to force people to do things they don't really care to do. Do you feel that is going to make people want to stay around? I mean.. really?

Of course, those aren't the types we wanted around here anyways... right? Lets focus once again on what types we want to drive away... even though we've done nothing new to attract others. We've only imposed restrictions.

AKDejaVu

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #36 on:** July 10, 2001, 04:59:00 AM »

Pepe, agree with you but with some consideration. There are two kinds of respawners:
1 - The typical zeke/Spit/nikki/La7 taking off over'n over and being shot down over'n over.
2 - The typical 109G10 taking off and climbing fast to intercep a buff and, probably, being shot down over'n over also by the buff.

IMO, the first case should be erradicated, but not the second one.

The following is a prototype of a rule:
If you are shot down at less than a mile of a friendly base perimeter and at less than 3000 feet, then you have a time penalty before taking off from that base (not necesary your base of origin).

A second and more restricted rule:
If you are shot down into your origin base perimeter and at less than 1000 feet, then you have a time penalty before taking off from that base.

IMO, respawning over'n over is one of the cancers of AH, a single suicidal zeke can frustrate the efforts of 5 or 6 players trying to take that base and this is not funny, perhaps only for the zeke pilot ...

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #37 on:** July 10, 2001, 06:52:00 AM »

Mandoble.. they already put a fix in for respawning at an airfield while trying to capture it.

Take out the fighter hangars.

So.. you decided not to take out the hangars and things got inconvenient. Wa!

AKDejaVu

gatt · « **Reply #38 on:** July 10, 2001, 07:23:00 AM »

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Idea to encourage returning home alive

What about having a nice blonde waiting for you at home?

Pepe · « **Reply #39 on:** July 10, 2001, 07:27:00 AM »

You were waiting for that, uh?

Pepe

lazs1 · « **Reply #40 on:** July 10, 2001, 08:22:00 AM »

the ak poster twins have it... There is plenty of places for those who's "immersion" is damaged by respawn to fly. It's not that they cann't find a fight with little or no respawn, or far enough away from the crowd so that respawn is a moot point....

No, it is that everyone else is having fun and ignoring them! They KNOW that they have a gawd given talent for flight SIMS that far exceeds the standard "quaker" on AH and are rightfully pissed that no one notices! If only people would playu their way! Then their talents would shine through! I got news... you ain't that good but... with enough boredom added to the game you might be able to pounce on people that are assleep and with delayed respawn you will be much more sure to have that all important huge numbers advantage when hitting a field.... the old "patience is the only worthwhile skill" crapola all over again.

Sheesh... On the one hand they are asking for more scenario like MA because people would like it once they were forced into it and on the other they are complaining that nobody wants to fly the restrictive special events that they feel are more realistic.
lazs

Toad · « **Reply #41 on:** July 10, 2001, 08:43:00 AM »

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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Mandoble.. they already put a fix in for respawning at an airfield while trying to capture it.

Take out the fighter hangars.

So.. you decided not to take out the hangars and things got inconvenient. Wa!

AKDejaVu

TwweeEEEEEEeeeeT! <blows whistle>

"Using common sense and logic in a BBS discussion, against DejaVu, 15 yard penalty, repeat third down!"

Truth in what Laz says as well.

Try this: every morning for a week, look in your shaving mirror and repeat three times "I guess not everyone wants to play AH in the exact same way I do."

If at the end of a week that sentence still makes you unhappy... well, it's a big world out there, isn't it.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #42 on:** July 10, 2001, 08:55:00 AM »

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Originally posted by Toad:

Try this: every morning for a week, look in your shaving mirror and repeat three times "I guess not everyone wants to play AH in the exact same way I do."

If people are THAT obsessed with the game, they need to check themselves and come back to reality.

AH is fun for me, when I no longer find it fun I will find something inside the game that makes it fun for me.

If I want to live, I do my best.. sometimes it doesn't always work out for me, but usually it does (just check out my stats for this tour so far, and I've been mostly furballing too!).

Anyways, I believe that enforcing your policy of what you believe to be fun onto the entire populace of an equal customer base all paying the same entry rate for the same amount of fun you are demanding, wouldn't it make sense that it be a give and take relationship amongst the customers?

You fly the way you want, I'll fly the way I want. If you aren't having fun because I am having fun, then you sincerely need to seek out your reason for playing a game intended to be fun for all.
-SW

NHFoxtro · « **Reply #43 on:** July 10, 2001, 09:12:00 AM »

Its sounds good to me, but should only apply to Veterans of the game. Say anyone who's been playing for six months. It usually takes anewbie a little less than that time to get good.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #44 on:** July 10, 2001, 09:35:00 AM »

Djvu, hangars rebuild up "suddenly", killing them or advertising they are down doesnt guarantee the conquest bacause once they re-up the spawners will be there forever.

As a side note, Me, Pepe and others are just giving some ideas, not imposing them, while Lazs and AK group seem to answer for the entire comunity.

Lazs, as I told you before, what you are looking for is a permanent head-to-head furball AH, not for any kind of arena, nor historical, neither the present one. Obviously, you are not interested into missions, strategy, jabo, bombers, base conquest, etc. And this "quake-furbaling" concept covers only a minor part of the entire sim.