General Climate Discussion

[MORAY37]

Another GW thread....?

I won't waste my time.

to the Army of Inept Wisdom Laz has mobilized, all with blindfolds and conspiracy theories in hand.  Another 3 billion dollars went to Iraq today and you see conspiracy in Global Warming....

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by WilldCrd
Its all hype! every damn bit of it on both sides!
in the 60's it was vietnam
in the 70's it was an oil crisis
in the 80's it was aids
in the 90's it was the upcoming dreaded Y2K (yeah that was a joke) and loosing the rain forests
in the first decade of the 21'st century its global warming

 

Hmmmm... can anyone remember how many people died in Vietnam?  I'm sure they thought it was hype too.  (I'm sure the vets on here love your post there, as well.   to them for not hunting you down and shoving your words into other orifices.  You defile their service with "hype")

Aids?  A pandemic that has spread across the entire planet... and has been causally related to millions of deaths... Hype?

You really have a funny way of looking at things, my friend.

[Stang]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
We still dont know for sure how long it will take for the warming to stop and for the earth to correct itself again

I usually stay out of these threads, but this comment kind of irked me.  Correct itself?  How do we know what the "correct" climate is?  And besides, climate is always in flux, always changing, be it warming or cooling.  

I just don't see how we are supposed to correct something we are only starting to comprehend.  

Sure we have an effect on our climate.  I don't doubt we have something to do with the warming of the earth.  But how much?  Can we really be sure?  Should we recklessly damage our economy and standard of living in this current wave of hysteria?  Even the UN report said drastic measures would only have limited effect.  Maybe we should temper it down until we really can be sure of what we are doing, and what effect we can have.

Every doomsday prophecy for the last couple hundred years, from Malthus on, has been so far invalidated.  Every generation it seems has its own end of the world paranoia.  Being a student of history, this current doomsday scenario has me at face value skeptical.

However, an unbiased and reasoned approach to the issue that has some concrete answers will immediately have my attention.  So far, I have yet to see that report.

[Angus]

The globe has a way with stabilizing itself from a catastrophy into somewhat friendlier environment. I think that's what he means.
Nice text Drediock.

"The question. and real argument.
Should be Not whats causing it.
But how to adapt to it."

Here's the twist IMHO. Because what is causing it will eventually influence how to adapt to it.

Anyway, we can't carry on like we do for a long time, so there is already something to adapt to. Will it be fast or will it be slow?

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by lazs2
we can't even put out a simple forest fire... we think we can stop the planet from heating and cooling?   we can't predict next weeks weather..  we think we know what it will be in 50 or 100 years?
lazs

So true.
The really funny thing to me is the climate change for lunch bunch, in most cases,  have not a clue or an idea about what they wish to be done about this theory when asked.
Those that do ask for change ask for alternative fuels, less pollution, etc. etc.
All of which are being done and have been for some time and will continue to be.
And this is without putting your head on the chopping block......or in this case, your finances and well being.
The really good ideas usualy come from the small, unheard of people people.
Also some of the development and research for things such as alternative fuel are being done and have been for a long , long time by the.............yep, you guessed it........The Evil Oil Companies.

[Louis XVII]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
The climate is warming. I dont think anyone is disagreeing on that

Except Lazs of course, who earlier said

no measurable rise in global temperature in 8 years now... The global temp will trend downward in the next few years...

Yeah right. That "cooling" is why all the arctic ice is melting right now. Looks like Moray was right about those blindfolds. Seems like Laz takes the Hitler stance, which was that people would believe the BIG lie. It was the little white lies they didn't believe. So, take a big lie and repeat it 500 times...

Originally posted by WilldCrd
Its all hype! every damn bit of it on both sides! in the 90's it was the upcoming dreaded Y2K (yeah that was a joke)

Glad you brought that up because I believe there are parallels between that and global warming. In the 90s, people were scaremongering about 1/1/2000 -  cars not starting, TV sets blowing up, electric kettles not working - you name it! People in IT were accused of "lining their pockets" for doing Y2K related work. And, on January 1st, 2000 - nothing happened. And the naysayers proclaimed "See! it was all a scam!".

Ah, not quite. Some of it was - kettles/cars/TV were never at risk. But the reason there was no apocalypse on 1/1/2000 was BECAUSE of the work undertaken to modify IT systems - the application programs, the database management systems, operating systems, and the data itself and the way it was stored. Had this work not been undertaken, there would indeed have been major crashes - just as there were within the safety of testbed scenarios.

Same thing again now. The GW Naysayers cling to the "it's a scam" argument. But man made greenhouse gas output WILL be reduced. New aircraft will be built that are 15% more fuel efficient than those operating before 2005 - already happening. New "greener" fuels will be developed to power cars - already happening. Later generations will have got over the Chernobyl/TMI paranoia and will make a commitment to nuclear (and other) sources of energy - already happening. Major commitments will be made to tech advancements such as low energy lighting - already happening.....

I believe that like Y2K, measures being taken now will see off the apocalypse of GW. And then the naysayers (or rather their descendants) will be able to gloat and say "See! it was all a scam!".

[Angus]

Hehe, my tax-software crashed at the turn of the millenium. Had to plough  through all my papers and make it from scratch.
I hadn't updated the thing. Because a friend told me this was a scam....

[lazs2]

moray.. you said you wouldn't then you did.

skyrock..sorry you are insulted.. I merely explained that c02 does not do what you think it does.  We are very close to a doubling... bout 85% and we have not had much of a temperature rise..  further doubling will not increase it's (c02) ability to absorb waves.  this is short version... look it up.

silat... nope.. no increase globally for the last 8 years.. show me the data that says it has increased.  Sat/NASA data shows that the US has not increased in temp in two decades.

no predictions they have made have been right..  the temp predicitions and charts were all made years after the events.   the computer models are being adjusted to predict the past... show me the computer model for the next 5 years.   there is none.. none you can see anyway.. the ones they publish stop at around 2002..

They can't even get the past right... they have just now "discovered" that 1934 was the hottest year this century... they certainly can't get next week right or next year...  as I said... How gullible are you guys?

And nooo... they can't even put out a fire.    Never have put one out of any size.. OOOOOH the horror!!!! all that co2!!!  nope.. they can't stop it.

Which brings us tooooooo... what do you alarmists want us to do?  what would stop this so called MMGW?  should we do anything?     I mean.. if we have to destroy most of the worlds economy to reduce co2 by say...10%.. or maybe...  a tenth of a degree in a century... is that worth it?? or... should we maybe just screw in some of those flourecent bulbs and call it good?

something in between?  which of you can tell me?  Maybe just send money to algore and hope for the best?  wring our hands?

We are in a warming trend... show me how that is bad.   What bad things have happened?   who is being hurt?  during the last cold spell.. there were parts of africa in drought...biggest ever.. now.. not so much... our crop yeild is up 15% due to co2...  what bad is happening?

How much worse would it be if we were in a cold phase?   we will see... cause.. we can't stop the next ice age.   Any more than we can (or should) stop this warming time.    Temp is not increasing... it is staying nice and warm.

lazs

[Angus]

"We are in a warming trend" and "1934 was the hottest year"?
Eat this:


And this:



And this:



And these linkies:
http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0925-nasa.html
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2007/s2798.htm

And this one you know:




Interactive:
http://www.everybodysweather.com/Static_Media/Polar_Ice_Cap_Melter/index.htm

[lazs2]

The charts are wrong.. it has been explained that the highest years were not 98 but 34-35.   I have seen those charts before and they are several years old.. the "dicovery" was made only months ago... the "computer models" have now been adjusted to show that the early bump fit... just like after el nino... they adjusted the computer "prediction" (LOL) to show they knew it was gonna happen.

Note also that the temp is leveling off and dropping in all those charts at about 2000...  thank you for proving my point.    Most real scientists feel that we are going into a slight cooling trend that we will be able to do nothing about with temps falling in the next 3 years... I don't know but I do know that there is nothing we can (or should try to) do about it anyway.

The only thing that they can predict is yesterdays weather.

lazs

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus
Hehe, my tax-software crashed at the turn of the millenium. Had to plough  through all my papers and make it from scratch.
I hadn't updated the thing. Because a friend told me this was a scam....

 Pwnage!

I broke my toe last year.
It had nothing to do with global warm....eeeerrrr climate change, millenium bug...or racism.

(Threw the last one in just in case Leadpig decides to join in)

[Angus]

In my case I lost my bookkeeping due to a millenium bug. And just because I didn't belive it would happen. Capiche?

[Angus]

Originally posted by lazs2
The charts are wrong.. it has been explained that the highest years were not 98 but 34-35.   I have seen those charts before and they are several years old.. the "dicovery" was made only months ago... the "computer models" have now been adjusted to show that the early bump fit... just like after el nino... they adjusted the computer "prediction" (LOL) to show they knew it was gonna happen.

Note also that the temp is leveling off and dropping in all those charts at about 2000...  thank you for proving my point.    Most real scientists feel that we are going into a slight cooling trend that we will be able to do nothing about with temps falling in the next 3 years... I don't know but I do know that there is nothing we can (or should try to) do about it anyway.

The only thing that they can predict is yesterdays weather.

lazs

Newest data from Nasa gives 2005 sharing the top with the Nino year of 1998 AFAIK. Now that is not old data, and the measurements globalwise are vastly more dense and accurate than in 1934.

And the Icechart needs an update, since the record year in shrinking is probably NOW.

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Angus
In my case I lost my bookkeeping due to a millenium bug. And just because I didn't belive it would happen. Capiche?

All to well. You pawned yourself.
Wanting to do it again?

[SkyRock]

Originally posted by Stang
 How do we know what the "correct" climate is?  And besides, climate is always in flux, always changing, be it warming or cooling.  
I just don't see how we are supposed to correct something we are only starting to comprehend.  

Sure we have an effect on our climate.  I don't doubt we have something to do with the warming of the earth.  But how much?  Can we really be sure?  Should we recklessly damage our economy and standard of living in this current wave of hysteria?  Even the UN report said drastic measures would only have limited effect.  

Very, very close to exactly how I feel about it!!!:aok   I just thinks these people that act like CO2 doesn't matter or that we do not have any affect on our climate, are just showing how stupid humanity can be sometimes!  It's that mentality that will cause the greatest threat to longterm existent on this planet!:aok