190 Series Vs. P38 Series

[leitwolf]

Well the OP's question was worded more along the lines of a dogfight between the two.

The 38 will win - either owning the 190(A) outright or by forcing the 190(D) to retreat.

MA stats determine which plane is better for newbies and furballs where SA and quick picking is key.
I think nobody would argue that the 190 gains a lot of ground in multi-plane engagements, in addition to pork&auger runs which will naturally water down the 38's K/D.

The 38 requires (and excels with) a good pilot, but in a real war that's a scarce commodity and the 190 "workhorse" concept is imo better suited for that.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Kweassa
It disengages at will, and allows the pilot to survive. If that's not "superiority", then what is?

All you're saying here is that the Dora lets you run away from a fight.  It seems to me that you tacitly admit that the Dora can only get "pick" kills.  The 38 can actually enter most fights with an even, or better-than-even chance, of actually engaging in prolonged combat and winning the fight.

In the real war, in ANY real war, being able to run away and survive is hugely important.  But, er, this isn't a real war.  If one wants to fight (not simply get kills in whatever way he can), the 38 is a far superior plane to the Dora, or to any other plane.

- oldman

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Kweassa
To be fair, being able to disengage at will does account for a significant tactical advantage in a more "realistic" perspective where survival does count higher in importance, than whether a fighter plane can gratify the game pilot's ego in the need to knife-fight everything, and then thump their chests about it.

It was interesting in the DGS scenario as a lot of us 'knife fighters' from the MA flew it differently because living meant something.

The 38s held their own quite well in the role they were given which was high alt escort 3 of 4 frames.  All we had to do was keep the baduns off the buffs.  Generally we could get in the way of the 190s who would half roll and dive away.  They didn't stay in to fight under those circumstances and we didn't follow them down.

We had a total of 135 sorties flown with 37 deaths and 7 discos.  We had 50 kills and again we left kills to stay with the buffs.

We had 38J and Ls with only a couple of us flying Js, of which I was one.  Seems like the 38s did just fine fighting the LW birds up high and down low and it was 109Ks G-14s 190D9s, A8s and the occasional 262 and 163.

Of course my only death was a 2nd sortie in the first frame when that bastage Leitwolf picked me in a D9 while I was fighting 109s on the deck

[trigger2]

Ode To The P-38

Oh, Hedy Lamarr is a beautiful gal, and Madeleine Carroll is too,
But you'll find if you query, a different theory amongst any bomber crew
For the loveliest thing of which one could sing (this side of the pearly gates)
Is no blonde or brunette of the Hollywood set -
But an escort of P-38s.

Yes, in the days that have passed,
when the tables were massed with glasses of scotch and champagne,
It's quite true that the sight was a thing of delight us,
intent on feeling no pain.
But no longer the same, nowadays is this game
When we head north for Messina Straits
Take the sparkling wine-every time,
just make mine an escort of P-38s.

Byron, Shelley and Keats ran a dozen dead heats
Describing the views from the hills,
of the valleys in May when the winds gently sway
In the air it's a different story;
We sweat out our track through the fighters and flak
We're willing to split up the glory
Well, they wouldn't reject us, so heaven protect us
and, until all this shooting abates,
Give us courage to fight 'em - one other small item -
an escort of P-38s.

— Frederic Arnold, 'Kohn's War

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Bronk
lmao
There is a great film murdr posted with your scenario. The nameless 190 A5 who I'm positive is a better stick than you. Got his arse shot off after his third attempt to engage.   I'll see if I can find it.

I believe this is the film you are speaking of.

[Murdr]

Its not like the P-38 cant disengage
multi.ahf
multi2.ahf

[stephen]

There is an underlying hate for certain A/C in the game, this ones a picker, this ones a HO'r,... but I melieve what is happening here is not the fault of any person or aircraft.

Upon realising that certain planes can enter the fray in a possision of thier choosing, close to range in a short time, and blast most anything into the tower in one pass, alot of players become bitter, and refuse to grant pilots the recognition for flying in a way that produces kills, followd by landing them.

I will be returning to my squad, and to this game in a short time, and yes my name will still be a derivitive of popceed.
I fly 190's ALOT, as my former fellow Rooks will atest to, and I land killz in it, so it has a special place in my heart, but this seeming hatred of any plane that boom and zooms well is miss guided, its not cheating, under handed, or cruel,...its flying.
If you dont like getting boom and zoomed by a plane made for it say so, but please dont miss lead all the new guys into believing a plane is inferior based on the fact that you hate the way we fly it.

I dont want to one on one people, if I wanted to do that then YES I would pick somthing that turns well, but the 190 isnt about 1 on 1 and I refuse to be baited into a rigged contest to prove the merit of this plane,
I KNOW IT ROCKS...lol
My personal decision to fly the 190 over the p38 has alot to do with survivability, I simply run out of tricks in 38's, so that when the fight falls into a 1 on 5 situation im unable to go offensive in the 38, HOWEVER the 190 has a bag of tricks enabling it to fly and fight within the same gaggle, and just mabey land kills.

I dont want to take anything away from the 38 community its a challenge to fly, and has merit, it just isnt GREAt at anything, and has several failings due to its whieght, speed, and allison power plants, and in the crunch when the base is capped, and I need to gain seperation in a hurry, outside of an la7, the 190 is my best choice.

what happens when a 190 meets a p38?.... well it isnt certain, but id want to be in the 190.

[Murdr]

3 190s, 1 typ, 1n1k2, and 1 p51 were not all that effective vs 1 38 in that 2nd film I just posted.

[stephen]

oh yeh, hey guys "PICKING" as you call it is a lack of SA, and is not the fault of the guy racking up kills against slow turning aircraft.
You made the decision to engage, You lost initiative, and you will pay the price, arguments are moot when your sitting in the tower after having your ride blasted from beneath you.

in short,.... GROW UP!

[Murdr]

tap, tap, tap...Is this thing on?

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by stephen


Upon realising that certain planes can enter the fray in a possision of thier choosing, close to range in a short time, and blast most anything into the tower in one pass, alot of players become bitter, and refuse to grant pilots the recognition for flying in a way that produces kills, followd by landing them.

So you want us to recognize you for being a timid cherry picker that can only fly in a hord?  Okay.  You're a timid cherry picker that can only fly in a hord.

I fly 190's ALOT, as my former fellow Rooks will atest to, and I land killz in it, so it has a special place in my heart, but this seeming hatred of any plane that boom and zooms well is miss guided, its not cheating, under handed, or cruel,...its flying.
If you dont like getting boom and zoomed by a plane made for it say so, but please dont miss lead all the new guys into believing a plane is inferior based on the fact that you hate the way we fly it.[/b]

Our assertions are based on recorded flight data.  Yours is solely based on being a timid cherry picker (see, I gave you recognition again).

I dont want to one on one people, if I wanted to do that then YES I would pick somthing that turns well, but the 190 isnt about 1 on 1 and I refuse to be baited into a rigged contest to prove the merit of this plane,
I KNOW IT ROCKS...lol[/b]

You don't want a 1v1 because you know you'll be proven wrong and you can't face that fact (here comes the recognition part again) that you're just a typical timid cherry picker that flies the Dora.  

My personal decision to fly the 190 over the p38 has alot to do with survivability, I simply run out of tricks in 38's, so that when the fight falls into a 1 on 5 situation im unable to go offensive in the 38, HOWEVER the 190 has a bag of tricks enabling it to fly and fight within the same gaggle, and just mabey land kills. [/b]

No, I think the real reason why you've never flown a P-38 is that it's a tad above your skill level.  By your own admission, you only fly in a hord while you cherry pick, which means that you're one of the five and not the solo plane.

I dont want to take anything away from the 38 community its a challenge to fly, and has merit, it just isnt GREAt at anything, and has several failings due to its whieght, speed, and allison power plants, and in the crunch when the base is capped, and I need to gain seperation in a hurry, outside of an la7, the 190 is my best choice.[/b]

You're correct.  The P-38 isn't great at anything, it's good at everything.  It's a good Energy fighter, good turn fighter and a good attack plane.  Very similiar to the Hellcat in this regard, a jack of all trades.  

Your comments also show a severe lack of any knowledge or experience with the P-38, other than running from one when you see one.

what happens when a 190 meets a p38?.... well it isnt certain, but id want to be in the 190. [/B]

We all know what will happen to a P-38 that meets your Dora.  You'll just run from it until you find safety in a hord and then return to cherry pick with the rest of the hord.

So, to summarize your posts...if you want to run from a fight or are a timid pilot, fly a Dora.


ack-ack

[Murdr]

Hmm, guess its not working...Id swear Id just posted 2 examples of a P-38 being 5 on 1, and an example of a 190 with alt attacking a low P-38

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Murdr
I believe this is the film you are speaking of.

yup thats the one. He wont look at it. His fragile ego cant accept being wrong.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by stephen
oh yeh, hey guys "PICKING" as you call it is a lack of SA, and is not the fault of the guy racking up kills against slow turning aircraft.
You made the decision to engage, You lost initiative, and you will pay the price, arguments are moot when your sitting in the tower after having your ride blasted from beneath you.

in short,.... GROW UP!

So, the superiority you claim, for you and your plane of choice, is that you can sit on a perch, dive in and pick off a plane that is already engaged in a fight, and run like a sissy. You admit you never want to fight one on one, but rather you want to attempt to shoot down a plane that is already in a fight, and run away if you miss.

I don't really care how you fly. I don't really care what you fly. But don't enter a discussion about a comparison between planes and slobber a bunch of nonsensical drivel about you and your plane being superior because you like to BnZ/cherry pick/horde and you can run away if you do not hold every advantage.

Nothing personal, but all you brought to this discussion is a bunch of juvenile Bravo Sierra, and then you tell others to "grow up".  The only thing you have you can base your argument on is your position that you can "pick and run" well in a 190, and because you can run away, you HOPE you never have to face a superior pilot, superior plane, or superior odds, that you can't run away from.

Sorry, but if that's all the argument you have, you can prove superiority for nothing, least of all you and your plane of choice. In fact, you and your arguments do a great disservice to the plane, there are others who could have at least made a factual and sound argument for the FW 190. But you made it into a farce. Congratulations.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by stephen
oh yeh, hey guys "PICKING" as you call it is a lack of SA, and is not the fault of the guy racking up kills against slow turning aircraft.
You made the decision to engage, You lost initiative, and you will pay the price, arguments are moot when your sitting in the tower after having your ride blasted from beneath you.

in short,.... GROW UP!

You no longer fly, and have a hard time listening to anyone else, and we're supposed to grow up?

LOL interesting how that works:confused: