190 Series Vs. P38 Series

[CAP1]

Originally posted by gpwurzel
Ack- Ack, mind if I take that challenge? I'm by no means a good pilot, but I can do the bnz thing (ish) and would love to see how you deal with that in a 38. Seriously, I've been flying the 38 for a couple times this tour (no kills) and would love to see how its really done (and no, I dont mind dying to find out) I'm working nights this at the moment, up until the 27th - but have the 27th night off if you can find time to school me in this.

Hopefully no-one is offended by this request - I'm asking as I want to get better in short order. Oh, and this request is to all of you p38 pilots......if you can spare the time that is.

Wurzel;)


*and yep, I know I'm going to get spanked royally...but its in a good cause*

even those of us that pretty much suck in it? i'd love to have some 1-1 fun in it.......win or lose......i'd only ask one thing of ya.....film the fights? i'll be out of town from the 22nd till the 2nd.........

let me know by pm or here, ok? my ingame is 1ltcap

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[CAP1]

Originally posted by Fianna
And even better, you start at 5k and I'll start at 10k. That way I can prove to you that the 38 is a better picker than the 190.

[gpwurzel]

Hey Cap, yep, even those who suck in it.....each and every fight is a learning experience fella.....

I would most certainly film it (I try to film most fights I have - so I can see where i went wrong, or modify my tactics for next time round)

Will be a pleasure to go 1 v 1 with ya m8,

I'm normally around a lot on my weeks off, so will keep an eye out for ya



Wurzel

[Angrist]

My squad flies specifically German aircraft.  I fly 109's normally, but many times I fly 190 a-5's or a-8's.

If any of you experten would like to fly a few rounds wherever (TA, MA, DA), I'd love to get some lessons.  I'm all about learning to fly my Aircraft of choice better!

  Just give me a shout!

[Kweassa]

..but....what happens when you're climbing back up to alt, and lo and behold there's a 38 up there waiting for ya?

 Simple.

 You shoot the 190 down, and then log it down at a page of the , and then wipe it from your memory

[stephen]

blah blah blah, ill look you boys up if youd like, sick of this whimpering about running away....I can talk till im blue in the face, the poing is that the 51 IS BETTER AT RUNNING AWAY, and it takes skill to kill in a 190.

and if you are really willing to start with a 5k disadvantage im going to bore holes in your plane with bullets kid...
your using me as a soap box to hate on flying characteristics you dont like, the only thing your going to teach me is how to mouth off more efectivly, and im not intrested in talking dodo.
nothing to prove to you other than mabey one day youll learn stop looking at data, and start flying with instinct.
run run run, you want a guy to turn so you can kill him, ive seen the like a hundred times..... and know what ive never taken the bait once, so keep yammering willy nilly, the noobs might be impressed but im not, on the morrow my friend "ack-ack" aka "The Mouth"

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

No one could teach you how to mouth off more effectively. You'll never be more than an annoyance. Not really intelligent, not really amusing, not even entertaining, just annoying.

[Raptor]

You can tell someone has no arguement when they start name-calling.

When 190 has E it has a better chance of survival because it can disengage.
When Co-E the 190 may be able to disengage.
When 190 does not have E it cannot disengage nor out turn the opponent

When the P38 has E it can engage/disengage at will
When the P38 has Co E it can outperform the 190 until the 190 disengages
When the P38 has less E, it can utilize its turning characteristics to evade.

So I think the P38's ability to evade pushes the P38 over the top in a 190 vs P38 engagement.

Above 25k the P38 out performs the 190 in all aspects. During DGS P38s would cruise along and if 190s appeared at co alt they would soon end up diving below 20k. The P38s would disengage and climb back up to 30k. The 190s were not able to climb back up to combat alt in time to intercept the bombers. Basically in DGS if we made the 190s dive it was just as effective as if we had shot them down because they would not be able to reach the bombers.

I have not flown this much this tour so looking to last tour:
I had 85 kills in a P38L and only 1 death to a 190 of any type.
Of my kills 7 were 190s (all types)

Raptor Tour 94 Stats
Top planes I shot down
Kills of
Lanc: 15
Spit: 15
La: 12
F4U: 8
F6F: 8
190: 7
P51: 7

Killed by
Spit: 5
P51: 3
F6F: 3
F4U: 2
La: 2
190: 1
Lanc: 1

Ignoring the Lancasters, that gave me the following K/D ratios:
Against Spitfires: 3
Against Las: 6
Against F4Us: 4
Against F6Fs: 2.67
Against 190s: 7
Against P51s: 2.33

Interestingly enough, my highest k/d ratio was against 190s

[stephen]

all I hear is a bunch of whining about running away, when the pilots most important goal is to win, the 190d9 eccels in diving into th fight, killing an unwary opponent, then escaping even the vaunted p51.

when you land 5 kills in the thing fellow country men applaud, and the nme does what they do best, whine.....

"I want a 1on1" arial combat is not a 1 on 1 event, we do not approach an nme whom we know holds a supperior advantage. if possible we stab him in the back whilst hes not paying attention.

"All you do is run !!" you simply have not enter the fight in a position "or a plane" capable of following an ingagment to its final conclusion.

"you cherry picked me!" you have not been aware of what is going on around you, and have fallen victim because you have not observed the rules of dogfighting.

this is fair this isnt fair, wwwwah!

 speak of running, talk of picking, you want somone to hold dead level at 200mph and accept your BS and I aint buyin it.
simply put boom and zoom is a learnd art, you turn fighters are the less informed, repeatedly lashing out against a tactic that is obviously better than your own, heck no im not gonna turn fight you, or stick around when your higher, unfortunatly the grand majority of mouths around here arent happy unless you fly to thier specifications......
I dont care how good you and your simplton plane is, if the other plots leaves and engages later at an advantage,.. you still die.

Any world war 2 surviving pilot would scoff at what your suggesting.."a fair fight?" since when is life fair? I wonder how you can possibly continue to debate this fact... "your obviously not a skilled pilot because your only capable of running when an nme plane is in a supperior position..." NO DUH!!!  try this... assume your life is egsactly one kill away from ending......then take up the plane of your choice.

I care for my country and thats it, your opinions are worthless, the 38 is worthless, and the endless debate about which is better is worthless, because in the end I might just decide its better to land kills, or I might chop pieces off that junk pile you call a plane. either way its up to ME and has nothing to do with how much you whine on 200.

GROW UP= being responsible for your own actions/inaction.... if you where any kind of pilot you'd up what is obviously the harder plane to fly effectivly, i.e. the 190, it has tourqe, doesnt turn worth spit, and has shorter legs, and worse balistics,.....yet I still here all this tripe about the newby loving 38. I \m gonna get back on because of this little debate kids, and god I hope I run against one of you guys in DA right when you think your about to get the uper hand on one of my rooks, a pleasure it will be to hurry your return to the tower, and a pleasure it will be to hear you whine over 200.

oh yeh, I wonder why out of all these wise guys on this board, not one has ever shot me down?... oh no I dont because you cant catch me..lol see you round tommorow boys..and I do mean boys, little boys, with big ego's and no sense, and mabey even a little to much time on thier hands, but a poets way of blabbering on without saying much at all, god I love this game, and I realise now I was a fool to leave.....but yeh the 38 is junk, its easily slipped away from by split S'ing above 300 ias., the elevator stinks, and so do you!!! ROOKS!!!!!!:cry

[Guppy35]

Stephen, you are not a WW2 pilot.  I hate to break it to ya but we're flying cartoon airplanes in an online environment.  Your survivalist excuse is just that.

If it's your choice to fly so that you always have the odds in your favor and every tactical advantage so be it.

But don't make it about the plane.  Take some of these guys up on a 1 v 1 engagement and see how it turns out.

But don't hide behind the old I fly it like WW2, cause it's not.

A WW2 D9 pilot did not get to pick his airfield, or the battle of his choosing.  He was on the defensive, more then likely to get attacked on the ground and most definately going to be facing overwhelming odds.

If you are going to 'fly like a WW2 pilot" then put yourself in their shoes and survive.  Oh and BTW if you get killed, you don't get a new plane and don't get to go up again.

[Raptor]

"Why have none of you shot me down"

Easy... you've not been playing for some time now...

Please Stephen explain why I had 7 190 kills for every 190 that shot me down?

[stephen]

not flying for you, its been over a year I bet since some newb in a 38 tried to get me into a rope a dope, and just tlike a thousnad times before and after that I didnt accept, I flew away in search of greener pastures, im not affraid to admit so, so why are you afraid to fly 190's?

to answer, the 190 was developed with the purpose of out pacing allied aircraft, i.e. out running, which is why it does what it does so well.

To accomplish this goal two cannons where deleated, and a more streamlined engine with greater power was introduced.
True, this plane was pounced upon alomost every time it left the ground , and this was taken into consideration as well.

Its not a dogfighter, its an interceptor.... made to fly against greater odds, and bring its pilot home whilst maintaning an advantage in speed.

what alarms me is the fact that it can be flown so effectivly in this game with its missmatch of types, and flying styles...this is no newb plane, and I take it as a seriouse mark of idiocy that people refer to it as EZ to get kills in.


I love the 38 the same way I love the p47, its rugged, manueverable in its element, and has great firepower and range, and if perhaps I was a diffrent person I would prefer it, but I dont....because they just dont incite the kind of rage amongst victims that the 190d9 does, and they are heavy aircraft...the 190 is twitchy, unforfiving in a hard turn, and even harder to get killz in. Its a plane I have yet to master even though ive favord it for 7 years, yet every time I fly it, it teaches me a new angle from which to hit the nme, and it allows so many options in an engagment that the nme can be caught off balance, or as you  say scurried away from.
the 38 is an older design with diffrent intentions in mind, and is inferior in a skilled pilots hand, because, IT CAN NOT DICTATE THE FIGHT IN A CO ALT/SPEED MERGE.

[Raptor]

Your Original arguement was how superior the 190 was to the P38...
Now your arguement is the 190 takes more skill to fly than the P38. You've committed arguemental suicide and contradicted yourself.

[stephen]

you are grasping at straws, because both are true.. next?

[Ack-Ack]

Stephan should have titled this thread, "Confessions of a Timid Pilot:  How I learned to run in a Dora."


ack-ack