Author Topic: another campus shooting this week? (Read 4626 times)

trax1 · « **Reply #180 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:02:56 PM »

Yeah but see that argument really doesn't carry over to school shootings, as I've stated I have no problem with CCW laws, it's just when it comes to classrooms I have the problem. Yeah CCW laws might be a deterrent to criminals in preventing them from thinking twice about committing a criminal act, but in school shootings the majority of them have nothing to do with your common criminal, they are committing the act to get revenge on those they see as the problem in their life's. The possibility of someone in the school having a CCW isn't going to stop them from wanting to carry out the act because they have already come to the descision that they are going to die, either by their own hand or anothers.

john9001 · « **Reply #181 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:10:24 PM »

trax, are you having problems in school? Are you being picked on, do some teachers dislike you? Girls make fun of you behind your back?

Elfie · « **Reply #182 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:13:15 PM »

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The possibility of someone in the school having a CCW isn't going to stop them from wanting to carry out the act because they have already come to the descision that they are going to die, either by there own hand or anothers.

Then why don't we see these lunatics going to gun ranges or military bases or anywhere else there is a high concentration of people with weapons to commit their heinous crimes? Why do we only see these things happening in gun free zones? Surely there are other places that cause significant irritants to people other than just schools and colleges?

These lunatics want to go out in style by killing as many as they can before someone kills them or they kill themselves. They want their 15 minutes of fame, they want their names remembered even if it's remembered in infamy. I'm not sure we can ever stop all of them but if we can stop some of them through removing the gun free zone tags and maybe your suggestion as well, is it not worth it?

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #183 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:13:56 PM »

john, trax could be exactly right in many cases. how funny will it be when one of you gets caught in a firearms crime in your gun club? dont you think youre being a bit stupid feeling so confident? you might get shot in the back of the skull without ever drawing your weapon.

lazs2 · « **Reply #184 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:14:48 PM »

trax.. you simply are not paying attention or.. you have a stubborn preconcieved "feeling" that you refuse to give up in the face of facts.

No one said that you would arm all the students.. you would simply allow those who already had ccw to carry their like everywhere else. As was pointed out to you many times.. it is not that they will always be able to shoot a nutjob.. it is that the nutjob won't bother to take the risk. Maybe a few might.. but certainly much less.

You don't really think that ccw holders are a problem do you? the vast majority of the "offences" are because they violated the law on where they carried.. either by accident or choice.. no one was hurt. some small amount were revolked for other crimes that had nothing to do with guns.

I find it strange that so many trust the saintly teacher to cover a student with their body as a shooter stands over them and pumps rounds into them but fails to give the teacher the credit for the ability and judgement and morality to carry a firearm.

There is no difference.. there is no magic "common sense" remover barrier at schools.. there is no reason why students that already have a ccw and carry everywhere else need to leave the gun in the car when they enter a school. They are still the same people they 20 minutes before.

If nothing else.. they can sure as hell break the concentration of a shooter long enough for the cops to get there.

But.. your solution is welcome. Name one thing that would work better.. so far as I know... about everything else has been tried.

It is also about how you want to live. do you like the way airports are these days? is that a pleasant thing to you? Would you like the same kind of security at schools? some have em.. metal detectors.. random searches.. armed guards glaring at you? is that more pleasant than CCW holders going about the campus unknown to you and others?

seriously.. is it?

lazs

Elfie · « **Reply #185 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:16:01 PM »

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Originally posted by Donzo
Actually,some inner city schools are run like that...metal detectors, security people, etc.

You have any infos on how much that sort of thing costs per school?

I'm not sure how feasible it is for a college/university campus though since they tend to be spread out over a large area with many buildings unlike elementary/middle/high schools which are just one building or just a few buildings in a small area.

john9001 · « **Reply #186 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:16:03 PM »

As Willie Sutton the bank robber said when asked why he robbed banks, 'because that's where the money is'.

Elfie · « **Reply #187 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:17:33 PM »

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You don't really think that ccw holders are a problem do you? the vast majority of the "offences" are because they violated the law on where they carried.. either by accident or choice.. no one was hurt. some small amount were revolked for other crimes that had nothing to do with guns.

Lazs do you have infos on exactly what the issues were? I would be interested in finding out.

B@tfinkV · « **Reply #188 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:21:47 PM »

would you shoot a bank robber in a hold up?

hubsonfire · « **Reply #189 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:28:30 PM »

A better question is would you shoot someone trying to kill someone else?

Money is not relevant here. Money is easily replaced, whereas human lives, especially those of children, cannot be replaced, and cannot be measured in terms of paper or metal.

trax1 · « **Reply #190 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:34:14 PM »

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Originally posted by Elfie
Then why don't we see these lunatics going to gun ranges or military bases or anywhere else there is a high concentration of people with weapons to commit their heinous crimes? Why do we only see these things happening in gun free zones? Surely there are other places that cause significant irritants to people other than just schools and colleges?

These lunatics want to go out in style by killing as many as they can before someone kills them or they kill themselves. They want their 15 minutes of fame, they want their names remembered even if it's remembered in infamy. I'm not sure we can ever stop all of them but if we can stop some of them through removing the gun free zone tags and maybe your suggestion as well, is it not worth it?

The reason they don't do it at a gun range or military base is for one they have no connection to the people there, they don't have any reason to want revenge on those people, and for the fact that every single person is armed there, yes if thats your solution I'd agree it would work to arm every single person at a school. As I've stated several times the reason in the majority of cases they goto the school to kill is because those are the people they see as the ones that have caused whatever problem they have in their life.

I also just don't think theres really enough students that have CCW's or would want to carry a gun into a classroom to actually be in a situation where they would be a help by being in the right place at the right time to help, in the big picture school shooting are rare when you take into account the number of schools there are.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #191 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:41:26 PM »

Trax, have you ever been in a situation where you have been attacked?

john9001 · « **Reply #192 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:49:28 PM »

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Originally posted by trax1

I also just don't think theres really enough students that have CCW's or would want to carry a gun into a classroom to actually be in a situation where they would be a help by being in the right place at the right time to help, in the big picture school shooting are rare when you take into account the number of schools there are.

so you have gone from arming every student to not many would carry.

If not many would carry, why do you object to a few guns in the whole school?

you see, not everyone has to be armed, it just has to be known that some may be armed.

trax1 · « **Reply #193 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:49:46 PM »

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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Trax, have you ever been in a situation where you have been attacked?

Actually yes, I was at a gas station when I was a teenager a guy pulled out a 357 on us, thankfully a cop was driving by as we ran out and the guy was arrested, the guy tried to claim he was an undercover cop, but he was just an off-duty security guard and wasn't supposed to carry a weapon, so he was arrested. Now saying that I've said several times I have no problem with guns or CCW's, it's just when it comes to classrooms I don't think the students should come to class armed.

Elfie · « **Reply #194 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:50:58 PM »

Trax the lunatics don't always have a connection to the people at the school. Many times yes, but not always.

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I also just don't think theres really enough students that have CCW's or would want to carry a gun into a classroom to actually be in a situation where they would be a help by being in the right place at the right time to help, in the big picture school shooting are rare when you take into account the number of schools there are.

It's not about them being in the right place at the right time, that would most likely be rare. It's about the deterrent aspect. Let's go back to the Florida tourists. Initially the tourists in Florida had what was essentially a gun free zone tag on them, and the criminals knew it. Once that tag was removed, tourists were no longer targeted anymore than they had been before the CCW law was first put into place.

We will never stop all crime. Saudi Arabia has some of the toughest sentences for criminals and they have one of the lowest crime rates in the world, yet....crime still exists. What we want to do is deter as many criminals as possible and criminals themselves say the prospect of their victims being armed is a huge deterrent.