Learn Who The Enemy Aces Are

[The Fugitive]

I think the big thing here is all attitude. "New guys" come in thinking they must survive, must land, must get there name in lights, must score points. While the vets (lets not call them aces) have already matured past that and realize that the real fun in this game is the fight. To a furballler, is plane against plane, to a GVer is tank against tank, to a land grabber, its stealing that next base in line from the enemy.

Waldron, and Yarbles both are advocating the "newbie" style, they just don't know any better....yet. The people who excel at this game are the ones who make that transition the fastest. Maybe you die a lot, but that doesn't matter, you jump into a new ride and continue the fight. Some you win some you lose, but either way its the fight we are all after.

Coming in here and posting....as a tip.... NOT to fight is counter productive. That is why this thread has stirred up so many comments. Once you learn that "the fight" is the reason to play this game you'll find it much more fun and less frustrating. You will also more likely get past any plateau and really start to excel in what ever area of fighting you like to play.

[GooseAW]

Waldron,

Find a squad, and find a trainer. You will learn something everyday if you decide to ask questions and listen as opposed to presuming you have a clue. Regardless of your life experience.

A large established squad will have all skill levels and personality types represented most likely. This will increase the likelyhood that you will find a squaddie that meshes with you well enough to interpret the basic things that you need to learn to be able to enter a fight  somewhat aggressively with a chance to win even without every advantage while having some squaddies around to save you from some of your mistakes. I agree that it is frustrating and difficult to learn from getting clubbed at every encounter. So you need some friends.... The attitude portrayed in your post will not help you make friends in this, or any COMBAT simulation/game.... Having friends will also give you a reason to log back in even after a bad night in the Main Arena, which we all have from time to time. Have you ever even asked anyone for help?

Finally, I've replied here hoping you're not some shameless troll. If you are, well, I'm sad for you.....


Yarbles,

huh?

While some of the responses to the OP are a little over the top due to the responders' frustration with the playing style Waldron holds up as the right thing to do while in fact it is, in the minds of probably every experienced flyer in the game, the absolute wrong tact to take if you want to learn and improve at all in the AH world. Your response to them is even further to the opposite extreme...

Oh, and without ego involved, how many people would actually spend 100 hours a month in a game like this? So yes, my ego needs a little stroke every now and then! I hate dying! But I Love the fight enough to make up for it!

[moot]

Yep.. Saying the better players want the newer or worse players to stay worse so they can get easy kills is not only completely false, it's as bad for the game to misinform the new players telling them that as spreading rumors about cheating is. 

[jerkins]

Who is this waldron character? 

The advice you have given would not be considered sound by most who play the game (myself included) steven.  The general consensus is that flying better players makes you better.  This has been shown over and over again.

[TequilaChaser]

"The best way to deal with a high, fast P51 with a skilled pilot in it for example?"

Since someone did open the tactics door I had almost this exact scenario this weekend, except I was in a Spit XVI with a Typhoon perched ~3K above me.  We were the only ones in the area.

I turned my tail on him and stayed level until I saw him start to dive on me.  I nosed down gradually, building speed and drawing him lower, the goal being to draw him off his perch and start to equalize E states.  When he hit 1K out I reversed at near blackout.  Moving faster, because he was gaining on me, there is no way he could turn tighter without going into a complete blackout.

When he didn't run, but stayed to fight I knew I was in for a good one.  It was a good pilot (and a trainer).  I won but I think he stalled trying to pull a vertical roll opposite tourqe and I sprayed him across the length of the fuelage from the side.

Yep, BaldEagl, was a fun fight and completely unorthodoxed for a Typhoon trying to mix it up like that with a spit, but I had to see if I could do it   
I did not want to BnZ you either, I tried to come down and make it a more equaled E fight for the most part without trying to let you have any alt advantage on me.  I was impressed with the fight you put up, and the fact that you never extended away or dove away from me.....

 

had some other good fights after that as well  for the most part 

[BaldEagl]

I was impressed with the fight you put up, and the fact that you never extended away or dove away from me.....

Now why would I want to do that?  <S> TC.

[Guppy35]

Just got done flying tonite and I had a blast.  Just thinking about what was so much fun, and it was flying it right on the edge in the crowd, trying to get smaller, more nimble planes to overshoot my 38G, or turning with the Spits, N1Ks etc.  I got shot up a lot, and the running joke for me tonite was how many ailerons I lost.  But I'd have been bored stiff just sitting above the fight and waiting for only the best opportunity to shoot without any 'risk'.  I killed a bit more then I died, and I died fairly often.

Why anyone would be hung up on avoiding the intensity of those kinds of fights is beyond me.  Get in there and mix it up.  No one dies, planes are free and the learning comes quick as you find out how far you can push yourself and your cartoon plane.  Your gonna get picked, you'll end up shooting someone in the mix whose busy and you'll have those moments where you are sucked into the 'cockpit' and it's no longer a computer you are flying, but your imagination hard at work making it feel as real as we're ever going to get it in terms of WW2 air combat.

[Yarbles]

Ok as the relative novice Iam going to summarise.

Vetran Advice

1) Read loads from books links etc
2)Get with the program in the TA and get a trainer
3) Get into the fight against the best,record it and learn from your mistakes.
4) I am sure there is more.

My recent Newb experience of the above and MY ADVICE TO NEWBS:

1) Do all of the above (but yes it can be boring and frustrating)
2) Learn situational awareness by getting above the fight and seeing what is going on.
3)Prolong your time in the air by getting altitude and diving in and breaking off so learning how to engage and dissingage.
4) Fly a plain that is good at everything to start with like a spit.
5) Until you learn to fly looking behind you try to remain in areas where your side has numerical supperiority.
6) Remember some of the people you come up against have much better equipment than you so dont be too hard on yourself.

Hopefully you will also learn while doing the above and not give up because the only kills you get are in Hoesand most of the time you just get shot down by someone who had all the advantages including height.

[Yarbles]

Coming in here and posting....as a tip.... NOT to fight is counter productive. That is why this thread has stirred up so many comments. Once you learn that "the fight" is the reason to play this game you'll find it much more fun and less frustrating. You will also more likely get past any plateau and really start to excel in what ever area of fighting you like to play.

I thought he was saying choose your fights. Youve taken the trouble to get to a reasonable height so go for something you will enjoy and learn from

[Yarbles]

Yep.. Saying the better players want the newer or worse players to stay worse so they can get easy kills is not only completely false, it's as bad for the game to misinform the new players telling them that as spreading rumors about cheating is. 

Who said that

[SlapShot]

The problem with allot of the contributors on here is they have OBVIOUSLY forgotten what it is like to be at the other end of the food chain.

That is where you are wrong ... I believe most of us that have contributed actually did think about what it was like when we first started playing ... at least I did.

I got my arse handed to my constantly on a platter but I was determined to change the "constantly" to "occassionally" ... and my game plan was not running away from or avoiding fights ... just because I would die.

The more I died ... the better I got ... and eventually I didn't die as much.

[Yarbles]

    If you're a newbie.  One thing you can do to increase your survival rate is learn the names of the best enemy pilots.  Check the Roster and score under fighter.  The guys you are looking for have a kill to death ratio of 5-1.   If you see somebody land with 7 or 8 kills, i recommend you write down their name.  You can BnZ these guys and get away with it, but you better do a good honest BnZ and get outta there if you don't kill em.  Don't stick around and dog fight with one or you'll likely end up DEAD.
    Don't return to a sector if you know a HOT SHOT enemy pilot is working there.  Unless you come back in a superior plane with alot of altitude advantage (not too much though, about 4K should do it), so you can easily disengage.   Like a P-57
versus a Zero.   You don't wanna still be climbing struggeling to reach your attack altitude when you enter the sector.  You wanna be level and fast to surprise these guys.   They do tend to fixate though on other newbies who try to hide under their own flak at bases and CV's.  So you might catch'em unaware.  But my advise is to avoid em like the plague until you get some experience.
     There are plenty of mediocre pilots out there you can practice on.  And even the AI in the offline arenas will give you a run for your money.  The advice about gaining experience by flying against the best in the MA is o.k, if you're interested in learning how to get yourself killed over and over again.  Just my opinion. 

I agree with some of this but I dont think its worth putting energy into avoiding specific people. The time would be better spent leaning ACM which is something we can all agree on.

Learning to get height is a first step in my opinion after charging straight at everything head on. To Bounce someone you need to employ Lead and Lag and all that entails. If you want to continue the fight which inevitably you will want to you will need to learn to maintain an E advantage, which means fighting in the vertical as well as horrizontal as well as learning to turn in the most E efficient way. Additionally if your opponent then slows down you will have to slow down of course to avoid overshoot and eventually you will be fighting at the limit of stall. And so it goes on. By employing a staged approach and not leaping in at every opportunity without any consideration for your own survival I think a newb would learn more and have more fun.

I agree that in many ways you learn less from an experienced pilot in the sense that the fight is short, they employ allot of learned skill as well as knowledge, eg turn tighter etc as they can judge the limit of the same manouvre better, often will have better equipment eg great stick, excellent rudder pedals and are less likely to present you with a mistake that you can exploit as they are opperating within their limits. Quite frankly they are also allot less fun. 

As I said A good pilot could probably reel a newb in if he doensnt have to show all his skill staragit away.  

If you fly at lower alt with less E and get "clubbed" you learn what exactly?

[Yarbles]

The more I died ... the better I got ... and eventually I didn't die as much.

This does not automatically follow . see above.

I have tried to explain above how someone might progress while maintaining some control over the action and learn basic skills in the process. Perhaps this approach from the experienced might be better than just ratling off the usual well worn cliches? 

Perhaps someone could provide some more interesting advice than "Get a Trainer" "Record your Fights" "Atack everything irrespective" "Take time to learn ACM's"

Valid though these points are

[Yarbles]

That is where you are wrong ... I believe most of us that have contributed actually did think about what it was like when we first started playing ... at least I did.

Maybe but not as much as I have

[Yarbles]

Yarbles,

huh?

While some of the responses to the OP are a little over the top due to the responders' frustration with the playing style Waldron holds up as the right thing to do while in fact it is, in the minds of probably every experienced flyer in the game, the absolute wrong tact to take if you want to learn and improve at all in the AH world. Your response to them is even further to the opposite extreme...

Oh, and without ego involved, how many people would actually spend 100 hours a month in a game like this? So yes, my ego needs a little stroke every now and then! I hate dying! But I Love the fight enough to make up for it!

I think Waldron's points spark a latent prejudice against newb pilots as contributors seem to feel a collective frustration that new people tend to mob, not learn the skills while looking for shortcuts, stay out of range if they dont have all the advantages, go for Ho'es and glory seek when they have achieved very little.
Experienced people feel they are hunted as trophies especially when they are at a dissadvantage by those who dont appreciate their skills. I know I do it. If I saw an experienced pilot flying low and slow and smoking i would and have thouroughly enjoyed gunning them down It proves nothing but it feels great

I say its only to be expected and stop picking on the newbs for getting sick of getting their arses kicked. I saw one guy on here who thought Waldron should be banned. Get a grip.