Perk

[Vudak]

I'm an old h2h guy where 99% of the time, the spitfires would be disabled in the arenas...

I don't usually like to be curt, but that is pathetic.

(The Spits being disabled)

So... in short, the spit 16 can also be hindering our future generation of sticks... as if they aren't hindered enough now...

Please.  This game takes the right sort of attitude if you want to improve.  The plane means nothing.  People learn just as many stupid things in every other plane in the set.

The 16 gives the guys who have no interest in improving, a reason to have an interest in maintaining their account.

[Karnak]

Good question, why perk anything when the Chog was ruling the air we didn't half the plane set we have now.

It wasn't just percentage of use the F4U-1C had, it was also that the F4U-1C's K/D ratio was much higher than expected for the most commonly used aircraft.  It is, as a perk plane, well above 2 to 1, something the perked Spitfire Mk XIV has never even approached.  Unperk the F4U-1C and it will still dominate in a way that will have you remembering the 7% of the P-51D and Spitfire Mk XVI as the good old days.

You are comparing apples and oranges I think.


Anaxogoras

Perk the Mk XVI and how long do you think it will be before these same people are crying for the Mk VIII to be perked?  There is nothing in their whines about the Mk XVI that the Mk VIII cannot do as well.

[SlapShot]

There's another one who gets it.  Because the Spit16 makes up for bad acm, it doesn't encourage learning it.  There's lots of aircraft that are good for beginners but which still reveal enough mistakes to motivate growth.  Here are the ones I can name off hand:

Spitfire VIII or IX
109F-4 or G-2
P-38L (no torque)
LA-5
KI-84 (great performance but gives lots of 'feedback' if you try to manhandle the controls.)

Leaving noobs with the Spitfire VIII is hardly going to deny them fun or kills.  However, it is a little slower than the 16, its acceleration is a little behind and it doesn't roll like a 190 (almost forgot the 4x303s instead of 2x50cals).  Maybe that's just enough to still encourage the learning of acm but with minimum penalty for new folks.

Give the 16 a small perk and unperk the 14.   The Spit14 was never a problem in warbirds, and I used to love it when 14 pilots would try to turn fight me in the 109G-6.

With the exception of the Spits (in that list), all those other planes will do nothing but frustrate the crap out of new players and cause them to leave. I can't believe that the P-38L is even in that list.

The "Spit" whine is never ending and the reason being is that "most" new people do gravitate to the Spit as their "start out" plane. Now, if we apply the logic of "they don't learn anything" flying the Spit variants and must always rely on the "Spit" advantage, then NOBODY would be flying anything but Spits ... and we all know that that is not true.

The simple fact is that there are a whole lot of people who don't fly Spits, who first learned in Spits ... and I am one of them. I started with the Spit 9 (the "whine" Spit when I first started flying, since replaced by the Spit 16) and eventually moved to the Spit V and have since moved on to other planes, but what I "learned" in the Spits did translate very well to other aircraft that I fly or flew.

[Anaxogoras]

Please.  This game takes the right sort of attitude if you want to improve.  The plane means nothing.  People learn just as many stupid things in every other plane in the set.

Humans are results-oriented creatures.  We see the results we want, we assume that we gave the right input.  The 16 allows for the wrong input to yield the desired result, and the same is infrequently true for most of the other non-perk rides in the game.  This is not to say that you can't learn in an aircraft that is a poor measure of your inputs, but it necessitates the right attitude, whereas other aircraft teach a new pilot with results whether or not he has the right attitude.

Anaxogoras

Perk the Mk XVI and how long do you think it will be before these same people are crying for the Mk VIII to be perked?  There is nothing in their whines about the Mk XVI that the Mk VIII cannot do as well.

I already stated the differences.  The VIII is just slightly less capable than the XVI for main arena purposes, and that is enough.

With the exception of the Spits (in that list), all those other planes will do nothing but frustrate the crap out of new players and cause them to leave. I can't believe that the P-38L is even in that list.

The "Spit" whine is never ending and the reason being is that "most" new people do gravitate to the Spit as their "start out" plane. Now, if we apply the logic of "they don't learn anything" flying the Spit variants and must always rely on the "Spit" advantage, then NOBODY would be flying anything but Spits ... and we all know that that is not true.

The simple fact is that there are a whole lot of people who don't fly Spits, who first learned in Spits ... and I am one of them. I started with the Spit 9 (the "whine" Spit when I first started flying, since replaced by the Spit 16) and eventually moved to the Spit V and have since moved on to other planes, but what I "learned" in the Spits did translate very well to other aircraft that I fly or flew.

You're taking my words to the extreme.  I never said new players shouldn't fly Spits.

[Karnak]

Humans are results-oriented creatures.  We see the results we want, we assume that we gave the right input.  The 16 allows for the wrong input to yield the desired result, and the same is infrequently true for most of the other non-perk rides in the game.  This is not to say that you can't learn in an aircraft that is a poor measure of your inputs, but it necessitates the right attitude, whereas other aircraft teach a new pilot with results whether or not he has the right attitude.

Sometimes the Mk XVI will allow you to get away with the wrong input, and live a bit longer to learn more.  But the right input always works better and what is right in a Mk XVI is close to what is right in a P-38L or Fw190D-9.  Most people will gradually pick up what works better as, yes, even in the Mk XVI, doing the wrong thing usually gets you killed.

[hlbly]

what I'm sayin is, its just WAY to uber to fly against. I'm more afraid of a spixteen, then a Hurri, zeke, or niki, just because I know what it can do.
It climbs like a rocket, and has some of the best guns in the game. it out turns zekes, and with skill, hurris just as easy. it has one of the best accelerations in the game.
All of that is redundant, but thats what it is, is what it is.

Does it really out turn  zero ?

This is for all you people who want to perk the 16 .

 I am a pilot of low experience . Still haven't made my 3rd payment to HTC .I spend way too much time as it is thinking instead of doing .The more you have to think the further behind the "power curve" your decisions become . How many advantages do you want ? I hear you guys saying learn ACM . Well I am trying . I am also trying to learn the envelope of not only my ride but yours as well . You experienced pilots with your constant ridicule of not only the plane but the new meat trying to keep his head above water with the learning curve in here make me laugh . I bet you guys like to play full contact football with elementry kids . Jungle rules basketball against senior citizens . I can see you blowing hard on whatever passes for 200 in your community as well , about your great skills . Then screaming on the same channel if a 9 year old happens to slip a tackle . An octogenarian make a granny shot , about how lame their cleats are , or how a granny shot should be outlawed . I wonder if you have to worry so hard about someone who has flown less weeks here than some of you have years , skills are so great . As for you people who think a 16 will stop you from learning how to be a better stick i film almost everything . My improvement is fairly steady and that argument is alot of hogwash and unlike you I can prove my point with my films . It is just another lame argument you bully boys use who want every advantage their way .

[angelsandair]

Spit 9 owns a Spit 16 any day. These MA idiots should be flying Spit 9s and spit 5s... I got ganged by 2 typical spit 16 pilots, Ganging HO tards, after about 5 turns, they were all dead, and I was in a Spit 9. Spit 16 is a Spit 9 with a different engine...

[hlbly]

please excuse the heat of the last post . It is just that hearing this stuff every day when you are trying hard to learn in what can be a viscous setting gets to me some days . I said some things that were a little mean spirited and petty and I am truly sorry for them <blush>

[Karnak]

please excuse the heat of the last post . It is just that hearing this stuff every day when you are trying hard to learn in what can be a viscous setting gets to me some days . I said some things that were a little mean spirited and petty and I am truly sorry for them <blush>

Don't worry about it.  Some guys have been in this hobby for two decades now and forget what it is like to be new.

I originally signed up to WarBirds, and later Aces High, to fly simulated Spitfires.  The constant whining eventually drove me out of them, but I still defend their free use.  I hardly ever play anymore, and when I do it is usually a Mosquito or Ki-84, but I still have a fondness for Spits.

[hlbly]

Don't worry about it.  Some guys have been in this hobby for two decades now and forget what it is like to be new.

I originally signed up to WarBirds, and later Aces High, to fly simulated Spitfires.  The constant whining eventually drove me out of them, but I still defend their free use.  I hardly ever play anymore, and when I do it is usually a Mosquito or Ki-84, but I still have a fondness for Spits.

I guess you too have a few models of them hanging around , possibly read Fly for your life and Wing Leader a time or 2 as well ? Just cant understand why the guys that love the German birds are accepted but if you happen to have a historical love for a British ride you are lacking somehow .

[Vudak]

Just cant understand why the guys that love the German birds are accepted but if you happen to have a historical love for a British ride you are lacking somehow .

It boils down to this...  Remember a month or so ago the way running into a Corsair made you feel?  People get the same dread over Spits.

Of course, YOU took the proactive stance and decided to get some serious sticktime taking your lumps against Hogs in the DA.  Now I'll bet seeing a "F4U" icon in the MA is no big deal.  Sure, you won't win them all...  But at least you have the confidence in yourself to figure it's going to be a fun fight instead of your execution waiting to happen.

Most people don't take that approach...  Hence the "Perk the [insert plane they can't handle]" whines.

[angelsandair]

Yes, but the 16 does need a perk. As fast as it is, roll rate, acceleration. They should be learning the Spit 9 and Spit 5. The average idiot in a Spit 16 makes it look like junk, but in the right hands, it does need to be perked.

[thrila]

It's just the way it is, or so it seems hlbly.  I've read both of those books too and used to cruise at around at 27k not for an altitude advantage, but just because of all the literature i had read.

I began by flying the spit 9 years ago, i still recommend the spitfires to anyone learning to fly in AH.  They're very good for learning ACM etc.  I would probably fly them a lot more if i didn't get fed up with everyone running away.

Angels, I see no reason why a person shouldn't learn in the 16 rather than the 9.  I think it should have a perk price either, most planes have a few advantages over it.

[Anaxogoras]

It boils down to this...  Remember a month or so ago the way running into a Corsair made you feel?  People get the same dread over Spits.

Of course, YOU took the proactive stance and decided to get some serious sticktime taking your lumps against Hogs in the DA.  Now I'll bet seeing a "F4U" icon in the MA is no big deal.  Sure, you won't win them all...  But at least you have the confidence in yourself to figure it's going to be a fun fight instead of your execution waiting to happen.

Most people don't take that approach...  Hence the "Perk the [insert plane they can't handle]" whines.

Hogs are fear worthy in the DA because every single one is a C-Hog.

I guess you too have a few models of them hanging around , possibly read Fly for your life and Wing Leader a time or 2 as well ? Just cant understand why the guys that love the German birds are accepted but if you happen to have a historical love for a British ride you are lacking somehow .

You have got to be kidding me.  190D-9 pilots get ripped on all of the time.  And the 262?   On the other hand, I've never been called a dweeb for flying a 109 because most have a rough time when they try it themselves.

[Karnak]

Yes, but the 16 does need a perk. As fast as it is, roll rate, acceleration. They should be learning the Spit 9 and Spit 5. The average idiot in a Spit 16 makes it look like junk, but in the right hands, it does need to be perked.

You are wrong.  Learning in a Spit IX might be ok, a bit miserable as it is so slow, but ok.  The Spit V would be pure torture, slow as crap and 5 seconds of ammo to learn to shoot with.  The Spit XVI will teach a lot more about combat maneuvering than the Mk V, which will only teach the luftberry and split s against most MA rides.