Dueling: What shots do you take and what shots do you hold off on?

[Masherbrum]

Shane, maybe sometime this weekend, we can get and hour or two in the DA?    

[olskool2]

Threads like this make me die a little.

I wish everyone would collectively pull their panties out of the wads they're in and stop worrying. People can't even have clean duels anymore without one of the cartoon plane pilots hurting their e-feelings over the internet.

[grizz441]

Let me make it real simple for you.

1. You took a valid shot. I've said from the very beginning they were all on me, i.e. "my fault."
2. I explained *why* you were repeatedly being *given* the same shot.
3. You continue to take the shot when I *gave* it to you (which resulted in most of your kills on me actually.)
4. You lied about your motivation for wanting a "consensous" - meaning you really wanted affirmation from the peanut gallery that you did indeed own me thru your "superior" acm.
5. You keep trying to make me look like I was a total ass.

ZERO RESPECT.  <click>

1. So it was 'valid' yet you started HOing me after that.  Doesn't seem like you think it was valid.
2.  It doesn't matter *why* you *explained* it.  A candy shot is a candy shot.  That's like me explaining to you why I'm giving you my tail and since I explained it, you shouldn't take the shot. 
3. Quit *giving* a perfectly valid shot that any sane pilot would take.
4. Never said I owned you.  In fact I said you beat me more than I beat you and I said you are a better stick than me, no question.
5. You were.

[A8TOOL]

What I get out of the films is...and this is a totaly unbiased opinion based on what I believe to be fact from fiction...Grizz is right and Shane was wrong... all three times.

Grizz took a good shot that Shane presented to him in an attempt to get away ansd set up another maneuver. Shane was shot down and became upset proceeding to go against even the noobiest of DA rules and Ho Grizz out of anger with disrespect. Even if there was any rule changes, Ho's would not have been included, agreed upon or even mentioned between these two fine pilots.

[Shane]

What I get out of the films is...and this is a totaly unbiased opinion based on what I believe to be fact from fiction...Grizz is right and Shane was wrong... all three times.

Grizz took a good shot that Shane presented to him in an attempt to get away ansd set up another maneuver. Shane was shot down and became upset proceeding to go against even the noobiest of DA rules and Ho Grizz out of anger with disrespect. Even if there was any rule changes, Ho's would not have been included, agreed upon or even mentioned between these two fine pilots.

Show me once where I'd HO'd *after* a clean merge (at which point anything goes per standard rules).... please. As for the rest of what you said, continue living up to the "TOOL" part of your name. 

[Shane]

Shane, maybe sometime this weekend, we can get and hour or two in the DA?    

Sounds good to me.

[moot]

What I get out of the films is...and this is a totaly unbiased opinion based on what I believe to be fact from fiction...Grizz is right and Shane was wrong... all three times.

Wrong that

I never asked you directly *not* to take the shot, but rather inferred that maybe you can try holding them for continued flying work.

or

Can't speak for Texture, but bat and ded would probably hold that shot working for a cleaner kill, especially after the first several times it was remarked on and why it was being done.

?
This is what's flying above Grizz' head and probably yours too.. Which isnt really surprising in his case, given his precedent for making drama outta nothing on the forum.

[A8TOOL]

If your expecting me to respond negatively to your post I will not.  I called it as I seen it and still think you both are fine sim pilots and add character to the game..... some should be followed more than others.


I enjoy watching films between good pilots since there is usually lots to be learned.

[moot]

See, thats another good example of whats going on in this thread. I'm not baiting you for drama, Im saying it like I see it. Why do you think I'm baiting you? Where in my post is there anything to read as wanting to get you wound up?  I'm arguing that Shane is misinterpreted, the same way I misinterpreted him way back when I first dueled him in the DA.. In my case it was him telling me he couldnt get my lag right, to set up his evasives. And truth be told (years after the fact ) I was playing with some bad latency (but not variance) and he was pretty much the only one to notice it.

If you look in the screenshots Shane posted from mediafire, you can see it pretty obviously.. He's just talking to Grizz and Grizz is already winding up his smack talk.

[Murdr]

I think Tools comment was in reply to shane.

[Shane]

1. So it was 'valid' yet you started HOing me after that.  Doesn't seem like you think it was valid.
2.  It doesn't matter *why* you *explained* it.  A candy shot is a candy shot.  That's like me explaining to you why I'm giving you my tail and since I explained it, you shouldn't take the shot. 
3. Quit *giving* a perfectly valid shot that any sane pilot would take.
4. Never said I owned you.  In fact I said you beat me more than I beat you and I said you are a better stick than me, no question.
5. You were.

1. Just as "valid" as the shots you took. Are we forgetting these are the very last 3 fights over the course of a few hours?  Oh noooo.. you prefer to make it look like it was a constant thing I did. And honey, those were front quarter shots you gave me not a HO-Joust shot.  Neither of those times did you have a shot in return. You could have pulled into it, sure. Your choice.

2 and 3.  You said you were "learning" the P-38, am I lying? Was I wrong in wanting to let you put it thru it's paces?  Did you repeatedly take the same easy shot ***I told you I was giving you,*** instead of passing on it and working for a cleaner kill?  Did I hold off on plenty of shots - "you died 4 times" to let you continue pushing that 38?  Yeah? That's a "friendly" type thing to do. Seems to me you only wanted the kill - and again all those gimmes were exactly that, deliberate gimmes knowingly given, and taken - not "oh craps I messed up and I'm dead." You think I let people get easy kills over and over on me like that? Puhlease. Let's say you failed the friendly part. I can even post a fim of you earning an honest rope and getting a "GK" from me.

4.  Then whats the whole point of this thread? I thought it was to obtain a simple consensus about the "shot"  not about the last 2 fights? Valid is as valid does, no?

5. No more than you were.  Shall I post films of you at 7k when it was agreed 5k was the alt? I know you were waiting for me to finish with SERaider, but even when i'm waiting like that I stick around at 5k. I can post films of this, too. Several actually.   You can also see in those films I was usually around 4k and you would often have a speed advantage - again my choice.  

And once again, I never responded in the negative about the shots you took. I never called you a dweeb or anything for taking them. I explained why you were getting them. I think the 2nd film I posted clearly shows your tendancy to try and ram in close quarters. (oooo 2 can play this game, huh?)

I've never once stated they weren't anything other than my own fault for expecting you to try something different by holding the shot.  My bad.  Somehow I think Snap, Bat, or many of the other friendlies I duel with would hold that shot, especially after the first time or 2, like I would, unless it was an honest rope stallout.

  

Yeah, go ahead and focus on the paybacks you got for not being too "friendly."  All of your deaths, just like mine, came from valid dueling shots.

[Shane]

Wrong that or?
This is what's flying above Grizz' head and probably yours too..

thank you.  it's been my point from the beginning even as the evening was in progress. "try laying off the shot and see what happens" except i never asked or told him to.. directly.

<edit:  yeah, latency (not variance) is something I'm very keyed into and is why I can often tell when someone (not thru any of their own fault) has a higher ping time in relation to me, outside of the "normal." Some people have consistently high latency. I notice it now when it gets to be above 200ms or so by the shots I'm seeing taken on me (and hitting, as often as not). The differences *do* have an effect, more pronounced on someone like me who relies on timing.>

[moot]

I think Tools comment was in reply to shane.

It was, and I butted in. "Grizz is right and Shane is wrong" misses the point here, the point being what the misunderstanding is that causes this whole argument.  They're arguing different things, so you cant say that either one is right or wrong when there's no common argument. You can't say Shane is wrong for doing something Grizz says Shane is doing.. when Shane hasnt done such a thing. Specificaly, Grizz is oblivious (purposedly or not) to Shane's point about ignoring easy shots to actualy win the fight rather than chance the win (and this is something anyone who's flown with Shane in the DA ought to know as 'SOP'). And A8Tool too, apparently.

[Shane]

Hey!  I've acknowledged Grizz' argument all along - about "the shot."  Mine went "whoooooosh" over his head.

[grizz441]

5. No more than you were.  Shall I post films of you at 7k when it was agreed 5k was the alt? I know you were waiting for me to finish with SERaider, but even when i'm waiting like that I stick around at 5k. I can post films of this, too. Several actually.   You can also see in those films I was usually around 4k and you would often have a speed advantage - again my choice. 

I take pride in dueling honorably, that is very insulting of you to say.  Post a film of me fighting dirty, oh wait, you don't have one.