Dueling vs MA fighting

[Anaxogoras]

Holy crap, zazen is alive!

[Stiglr]

I sort of was with you until you said this...

humble wrote:

In a P40B I'd be much more worried about a high SBD then a high La-7

Now, why is that? The SBD you could eventually simply walk away from and disengage, after he dove down to get you enough times. The La-7 is a much faster and capable plane, and a fighter besides, and would likely never offer an early P-40 a chance to escape. Nor would the P-40 ever have a chance to stay with the Lavochkin in a climb. The -40s are dogs nose up. But it might hang with a Dauntless.

[Krusty]

An SBD is a superb diver, and would only need one dive (and a sudden pop of dive flaps at the end) to put him on your 6 oclock, after which he would out-turn you quite handily.

You could dodge his attempt to do so, but chances are he'd have a very real chance of killing you (assuming nobody else around) before you could get away (assuming he knew what he was doing).

[Stiglr]

Pull up into the (I'm assuming nearly vertical, if dive flap-assisted) dive, reverse and now the Dauntless is low(er) and slow, never to easily get that potential energy back. Even a P-40 would be able to deal with him then (unless, of course, the pesky rear gunner gets a bead...)

A Dauntless turns real well (they were pressed into service as fighters during the Cactus Air Force days!) and can actually mix it up in a turning fight... but a P-40 shouldn't be playing that game, if you listen to Claire Chennault's wisdom. Stay fast and slash, and use that spread of 0.50s.

[JunkyII]

Fact, you will always be more worried about an LA over an SPD, dont be lieing in here. Stiglr its all about the pilot I used to beat people around in a KI61 that were flying Spit16s does that make the KI better then the Spit 16 no, does that make me an ubber pilot......no just more experienced then the guy in the spit 16

[humble]

I sort of was with you until you said this...

humble wrote:

Now, why is that? The SBD you could eventually simply walk away from and disengage, after he dove down to get you enough times. The La-7 is a much faster and capable plane, and a fighter besides, and would likely never offer an early P-40 a chance to escape. Nor would the P-40 ever have a chance to stay with the Lavochkin in a climb. The -40s are dogs nose up. But it might hang with a Dauntless.

The P40B has significant exploitable advantages vs the La-7. Given equal pilots the La-7 will obviously win a majority of the time, but pilots are rarely evenly matched. The SBD with altitude is however a clearly double superior plane and until E state equalizes has a significant advantage. Even when -E the SBD is a formidable plane and very capable dog fighter basically on par with the FM2/A6M/Hurricane/239 in an angles fight. So the P40B driver is faced with a difficult fight that in fact is similar to the fight the la-7 would face vs a quality stick in the P-40B. While planes like the spitfire and la-7 give you a range of pilots equal to forrest gumps box of chocolates you will very rarely find an inferior stick in an inferior plane...

[humble]

Fact, you will always be more worried about an LA over an SPD, dont be lieing in here. Stiglr its all about the pilot I used to beat people around in a KI61 that were flying Spit16s does that make the KI better then the Spit 16 no, does that make me an ubber pilot......no just more experienced then the guy in the spit 16

Actually I'm never worried much about an la-7 in anything until it shows me I need to be. I'm always worried about high cons that can hold speed and turn since they normally have good sticks. Same for A-20's, 110's and Mossies...

[JunkyII]

Actually I'm never worried much about an la-7 in anything until it shows me I need to be. I'm always worried about high cons that can hold speed and turn since they normally have good sticks. Same for A-20's, 110's and Mossies...

I can see what you mean, I see a 109 I normally think Im about to have my hands pretty full. But when I see an LA I know its either gunna run....or have a good stick who will be able to out fight any plane. LA7 I think pwns anything below 10K other then maybe a KI84/Spit16

[Stiglr]

humble wrote:

Even when -E the SBD is a formidable plane and very capable dog fighter basically on par with the FM2/A6M/Hurricane/239 in an angles fight.

Ain't NO Dauntless gonna hang with a Zero in a turn fight (not a properly modelled Zero, at any rate). Only chance is a large, multi-plane scrap where the SBDs can make use of Thach Weave and tail gunners, and light up a few unarmored wing fuel tanks with snapshots. Position- and angles-wise, the Zero is going to walk over a Dauntless all day and twice on Sundays.

[kilo2]

humble wrote:
Ain't NO Dauntless gonna hang with a Zero in a turn fight (not a properly modelled Zero, at any rate). Only chance is a large, multi-plane scrap where the SBDs can make use of Thach Weave and tail gunners, and light up a few unarmored wing fuel tanks with snapshots. Position- and angles-wise, the Zero is going to walk over a Dauntless all day and twice on Sundays.

Tell that to CPT. Stanley W. Vejtasa who took on 3 zeros at once in a SBD and downed all three(in a turn fight).

[Ack-Ack]

Tell that to CPT. Stanley W. Vejtasa who took on 3 zeros at once in a SBD and downed all three(in a turn fight).

In that engagement, it was a clear case of the better pilot winning the fight.  Afterwards, the Navy stuck him Wildcat in which he later downed 7 in an engagement.


ack-ack

[Bronk]

humble wrote:
Ain't NO Dauntless gonna hang with a Zero in a turn fight (not a properly modelled Zero, at any rate). Only chance is a large, multi-plane scrap where the SBDs can make use of Thach Weave and tail gunners, and light up a few unarmored wing fuel tanks with snapshots. Position- and angles-wise, the Zero is going to walk over a Dauntless all day and twice on Sundays.

Proof positive Ol' stigless here relies more on the AC than his ability to fly it.

[humble]

humble wrote:
Ain't NO Dauntless gonna hang with a Zero in a turn fight (not a properly modelled Zero, at any rate). Only chance is a large, multi-plane scrap where the SBDs can make use of Thach Weave and tail gunners, and light up a few unarmored wing fuel tanks with snapshots. Position- and angles-wise, the Zero is going to walk over a Dauntless all day and twice on Sundays.

I'm sorry but you are mistaken. An SBD will eat up any plane in the game (other then a D3A or Stuka) that tries to "go angles" with it.

[uptown]

I'm sorry but you are mistaken. An SBD will eat up any plane in the game (other then a D3A or Stuka) that tries to "go angles" with it.

I don't understand. It seems to me the lighter and more nomble zero would have a clear advantage in this matchup.

[Masherbrum]

Anyone have the screenshot of Furball's TBM shooting down Reynolds' Spit (IIRC)?