Author Topic: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3  (Read 7364 times)

Offline ink

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11274
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2010, 06:55:36 PM »
I still cant believe some of you really think having Icons is "more" realistic, that is absurd plain and simple, I am gonna quote myself


"Most of the sticks in WW2 that where killed by AtA,  NEVER saw there attacker, gee I wonder why that is???   maybe cause they did not have a 40 foot neon sign, that is bright glowing red over there damn plane.

the one that SAW the other first 99.9% of the time won the engagement period.

think about it, they painted the planes to be harder to see IE a dark top, light bottom,    so when you saw a con you would position yourself in his blind spot come in and kill him and get away, if the con that is being attacked looks around he will not see the nme approaching due to the planes camo, unless of course he spots him in adverse colors, or light glinting off the nme plane, (which they tried to have NOT happen)

MANY conflicts never happened, because they just flew by each other without ever seeing one another.

if you really believe Icons on is more realistic, then having them off :rolleyes:

obviously the monitor cannot simulate the Human eye, but that is not why "icons on" is implemented, they are on because otherwise it would be a arena full of guys dying without ever seeing the con attacking them, IF they ever even see each other at all."


you guys can "think" icons on is more realistic, but it does not make it so.

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2010, 06:58:02 PM »



Hence why we have zoom, and Icons, it is to give you the functionality you have in real life. But there is absolutly no way to duplicate real eyeballs in real space on a monitor with out adding information in a different manner than you have in real lift. Hence why we have the items  like icons,ranges, and zoom to duplicate the fuctionality you have in real life.

HiTech


Enjoy
See Rule #4

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2010, 07:01:38 PM »
On-the-nose, Bronk. On-the-nose, and from the horse's mouth, no less!

Gyrene is just wrong about everything from the AvA, how vision works, the difference between zoom and "moving your head closer" (into the gunsight? really?) and what icons were for.

For a guy that's only been registered on the forum since mid 2009 he sure is making a lot of absolute statements that are absolutely wrong.

Gyrene, you're absolutely wrong on the AvA. I'm one that loved it for a long time and supported it even as it was devolving into the mess it is now. It NEVER had to do with "the better skilled pilots" being in the AvA -- they were the same average skill as in the LWs. You're absolutely wrong about the reasons icons are in the game, and their function versus the analog eyeballs and capabilities of a human, and you're wrong about many other things including your cracks and insults stating that everybody that uses icons is in arcade mode or too weak/stupid/feeble to "make it" without icons.

P.S. No AH does not have an arcade mode. Shooting your foot off with a shotgun means you're stupid and have to walk around with crutches, not that everybody else is "feeble" or "weak" because they use 2 feet to move around. You want to pretend you're handicapped, turn your own icons off. Don't shoot the feet off of the rest of the world. They put you down for that kind of thing in the real and virtual worlds.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 07:14:26 PM by Krusty »

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2010, 07:02:20 PM »
Quote
zoom to duplicate the fuctionality you have in real life.

*Whistles innocently*

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2010, 07:03:42 PM »
*Whistles innocently*
That's it cut out what you don't like.
See Rule #4

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2010, 07:05:10 PM »
On-the-nose, Bronk. On-the-nose, and from the horse's mouth, no less!
It has been all covered before, just trying to point them in the right direction.
See Rule #4

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2010, 07:06:19 PM »
I know very well why icons are there. I understand that they're there to make up for the human eye. However they do that and so much more that it goes way overboard and kills it. They also just look dorky.

I can identify planes from well outside of 2 miles in game. That's a long freakin' way. Is it a little more difficult than it may be in real life? Sure, a litte... but like I said... having bright neon signs to make up for that deficit is way overkill. I really don't see why icons necessary in an AvA situation.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 07:08:00 PM by Motherland »

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2010, 07:07:42 PM »
I know very well why icons are there. I understand that they're there to make up for the human eye. However they do that and so much more that it goes way overboard and kills it. They also just look dorky.

I can identify planes from well outside of 2 miles in game. I really don't see why they're necessary in an AvA situation.
You have the option to shut them off... I see no problem.
See Rule #4

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2010, 07:09:01 PM »
You have the option to shut them off... I see no problem.
I don't get why you even typed that, you know it's stupid.

The point of no enemy icons is that it changes the dynamic of fighting. One person taking away a silly handicap for himself doesn't...

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2010, 07:10:52 PM »
I don't get why you even typed that, you know it's stupid.
You are complaining about icons ruining it for you. I'm telling you there is an option to shut them off. What is stupid about that?
See Rule #4

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2010, 07:13:02 PM »


The point of no enemy icons is that it changes the dynamic of fighting. One person taking away a silly handicap for himself doesn't...
So handicapping a guy who has poor display equipment is fair for him how?
See Rule #4

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2010, 07:16:20 PM »
Having a smaller monitor is no more handicapping than having a HOTAS vs a crappy stick or using a mouse, having a twisty vs pedals, or TIR vs hat switch.

In fact come to think of it, since the widescreen update in what, 2.14, a 22" monitor such as mine has a wider FoV but no more 'zoom' in default position than a 1280x1024 monitor which I think goes from 17"-19". So you have to have a pretty big monitor to get any kind of advantage.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23033
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2010, 07:22:38 PM »
"Most of the sticks in WW2 that where killed by AtA,  NEVER saw there attacker, gee I wonder why that is???   maybe cause they did not have a 40 foot neon sign, that is bright glowing red over there damn plane.
I hate that quote because almost every player who uses it grossly misunderstands it, ink being just one more in a long line.

For some reason they seem to think it means Bob was flying along, on cruise settings, straight and level when Franz shot him down and that most pilots who got shot down were shot down in that fashion.  It means nothing of the sort.  While that scenario did happen on occasion, what the quote refers to is that Bob was in combat, trying to shoot down Hans when Franz, who Bob had not seen pull in on his six, shot Bob down.  That happens in AH all the time too.


Motherland,

What resolution do you run at?  I run at 1920x1200 and there is no way I can tell the difference between a Spitfire and a Bf109 at two miles in AH.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2010, 07:23:51 PM »
1680x1050
No issue at all. I use zoom liberally and constantly, though. It is after all, a mechanism to make up for the lack of fidelity you get over a monitor :)
You begin to pick up on what to look for very quickly once you are immersed in the environment. I noticed very soon on in the Combat Challenge that for whatever reason Spitfires appeared darker and larger than 109's even at very low zoom settings (or none even) so I used this for quick, not-set-in-stone identification and judging of the situation from 3-4k out.

BTW Bronk I have actually messed with the icon colors to make them more 'neutral' and less of an eyesore.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 07:27:05 PM by Motherland »

Offline Krusty

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26745
Re: New arena-No icons- axis v allies rotating balance Plane sets No F3
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2010, 07:23:55 PM »
Just saw this:

In real life, no one has telescopic vision and we sure don't have icons in red and green over objects with distance indicators telling us how far away they are.

You're wrong.

It's called the brain. You don't NEED icons because you look at it and already have your OWN range readout inside your head. You instantly know "it's a football field away" or "it's a block away" or "it's waaaay the hell out there!!"

Your brain instantly can tell distance by whatever standards you grew up with. You HAVE these things all within the time it takes for an electron to fire in your nerve synapses....

Fast as thought it self (which is what it is) you have this information. It's just basic cognitive ability. You're looking at your car to see if you left the window open, you don't need a range readout to see how far it is, you instantly know "it's across the street" or whatever, and instantly see "damn, I left the window down!" while registering everything. If somebody broke your antenna off, you instantly say "wait, something's wrong!" Or if somebody keyed your doors, slashed your tires, or clipped your fender, all of this is processed at the speed of nerves firing inside your brain.

In AH you can't replicate this. Not in any game can you pretend to replicate this. The human brain... So good that technology hasn't been able to replace one yet! :)