Author Topic: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...  (Read 10073 times)

Offline ZetaNine

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #90 on: May 24, 2010, 10:12:46 AM »
what if theres more than 50 "skilled Aces" that want access?


we have files.........and it is a WELL KNOWN FACT that there are only 38 skilled aces here.  50 is sufficient...and it will not be modified now...the voting is already over.

Offline ZetaNine

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2010, 10:14:04 AM »
as far as the giant arena with the 800 cap,  no thanks you play there,the hordes would ruin that in no time


................my plaaaaaaan is working perfectly.

Offline TnDep

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2010, 10:17:29 AM »

we have files.........and it is a WELL KNOWN FACT that there are only 38 skilled aces here.  50 is sufficient...and it will not be modified now...the voting is already over.

 :lol  What about limited to koth winners and wabbits only that'll boost the koth events  :rock
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Offline ZetaNine

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2010, 10:25:58 AM »
:lol  What about limited to koth winners and wabbits only that'll boost the koth events  :rock

GREAT NEWS...I just got off the phone with the other members of the AH Player Advisory Board...and we have agreed to capping the "Skilled Aces Arena" at 60.

I give because I love.

you're welcome.

Offline Vinkman

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #94 on: May 24, 2010, 10:36:51 AM »
No it is not.  Total arena numbers are lower for TT than any other night of the week.  It does exactly what we knew it would do and what we witnessed before we switched to the split arenas.

Nope.  It is quantifiable.  You can chose not to believe that, but that does not make any less of a truth.  Do you really think we sit around here trying to find ways to piss off the customer base?


There are a lot of TT whiners, and I don't understand them because:

1) I believe there are no server isues, lag issues, because you've explain the sever speed thing a hundred times and it makes perfect sense.
2) On a big map on TT there is action at maybe 20% (up from the usual 5% of the fields. Seems like there's plenty of room to avoid being horded, ganged etc.

Why don't the folks that hate crouds, move to the 80% of the big map that has no one on it. Why do they go where the huge Dar bars are and then complain it too crouded? (I got horded, I got gang-targted, blah, blah).

Skuzzy,
Can you explain what you mean by cespool? And how TT is a more of a cesspool than split MA days? As above, behavioral differences, backed by the stats, would be appreciated.  I've heard a thousand 'opinions', and am not looking for another one of those.

Who is John Galt?

Offline Vudak

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #95 on: May 24, 2010, 11:06:55 AM »
Another question:

What is the ratio of rotating maps created before and after the arena split?

It seems like a few of them were designed with one thing in mind, and forced to exist in a very different environment.
Vudak
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #96 on: May 24, 2010, 11:20:13 AM »
You say that as though it is something new.  It isn't new.  It is the reason HTC has given the whole time.  I was being more specific in example that HTC ever is though.

HTC has said that new player retention basically ceases once arena population reaches a certain point.  They have said that arena populations of 500, 600 or even 800 are toxic.  Why would you think those things are?

I will admit that I could be wrong, but I can't imagine anything else that would be stopping growth.  New players log in and see a bunch of love muffines screaming at each other about politics or collisions or what needs to be done to win the war or having killed the only good fight and the chat buff moving too fast to get help, or even effectively put help given to use and it turns them off the game, makes it more frustrating that it already is.  Lets face it, brand new players have an uphill struggle as it is with them basically being cannon fodder, confronting them with a hostile environment, not just gamewise, but socially as well can't do anything good for encouraging people to subscribe.


I believe I have heard this reason before.

I'll again make the suggestion to have a 'New Player'  arena. Where new players can learn how to fly the play and use there view system and get the feel for the things the have to master against other new players. The training arena and offline practice arena do not provide what new players want. Excitement. In a Single MA, noobs will go where the action is, they will be overwhelmed and quit.

In a new player arena they will learn against other players who are learning as well. This is key because they will be able to have early success, which in turn will keep them interested and motivated to stay with the game and get better. They can still use the training arena, etc to learn from the experts and develop their skill. Also, Trainers and others who sign up could have access to provide, experience players to the mix in a constructive way.  Once the new players reach a certain rank or number of hours in the New Player arena, that unlocks the MA.  Since I'm all for liberty and freedom, and don't believe anyone should be kept from the MA, they can unlock it by reading and checking a waver page that explains the MA's tough environment and that it should be attempted by only when a certain skill level is reached (in the New Player) , but let the guy in if he so chooses. Once there, if he's getting pounded, and learned the error of his ways, he might go back and earn his wings in the "New Player" Arena.

the MMO's and many online games make use of 'Levelling up' as a very effective marketing tool. I think new players would strongly relate to the concept. Also, the success new players would have would get them hooked, and the idea that there was bigger more deadly arena waiting for them would feed their interest. Most popular titles are like that. First board is get your feet wet, learn some of the tools and learn/improve as you go by being exposed to an evermore complex and difficult game.

The MA is harsh. All the weapons, all the tactics, all the skill level of players with years under their belts, the trashtalking, squads, missions, etc. It's overwhelming, and new players get it all at once which is why retention of new players is low.

HTC's solution seems to be to dilute the actions so new players have a chance, but the side effects are obvious. And is it really working? How is new player retention?

I submit a strategy change may be in order. There are 4 arenas with extremely low usage (one of the WWI, EW, MW, AvA). Perhaps one could be converted to  'New Player" arena. If it's true HTC discouraes large arena's becaue it drives noobs out of the game. This might be a better alternative.

« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 01:06:32 PM by Vinkman »
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #97 on: May 24, 2010, 02:08:28 PM »
and to avoid some dweeb wanting to prove something goes in there and kills everybody and demands to be known as a king, maybe once you reach a certain "level" of skill then you wont be allowed in there, unless you are a trainer.

semp
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #98 on: May 24, 2010, 02:28:17 PM »
and to avoid some dweeb wanting to prove something goes in there and kills everybody and demands to be known as a king, maybe once you reach a certain "level" of skill then you wont be allowed in there, unless you are a trainer.

semp

AW had a newbie arena and everyone was allowed to fly in there but to keep the veteran players from using it as their own clubbing ground, as soon as you hit 10k points all of your weapons became disabled.  It kept the arena clear for the most part of veterans using it to club the baby seals.

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Offline hitech

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #99 on: May 24, 2010, 02:31:43 PM »

I believe I have heard this reason before.

I'll again make the suggestion to have a 'New Player'  arena. Where new players can learn how to fly the play and use there view system and get the feel for the things the have to master against other new players. The training arena and offline practice arena do not provide what new players want. Excitement. In a Single MA, noobs will go where the action is, they will be overwhelmed and quit.

In a new player arena they will learn against other players who are learning as well. This is key because they will be able to have early success, which in turn will keep them interested and motivated to stay with the game and get better. They can still use the training arena, etc to learn from the experts and develop their skill. Also, Trainers and others who sign up could have access to provide, experience players to the mix in a constructive way.  Once the new players reach a certain rank or number of hours in the New Player arena, that unlocks the MA.  Since I'm all for liberty and freedom, and don't believe anyone should be kept from the MA, they can unlock it by reading and checking a waver page that explains the MA's tough environment and that it should be attempted by only when a certain skill level is reached (in the New Player) , but let the guy in if he so chooses. Once there, if he's getting pounded, and learned the error of his ways, he might go back and earn his wings in the "New Player" Arena.

the MMO's and many online games make use of 'Levelling up' as a very effective marketing tool. I think new players would strongly relate to the concept. Also, the success new players would have would get them hooked, and the idea that there was bigger more deadly arena waiting for them would feed their interest. Most popular titles are like that. First board is get your feet wet, learn some of the tools and learn/improve as you go by being exposed to an evermore complex and difficult game.

The MA is harsh. All the weapons, all the tactics, all the skill level of players with years under their belts, the trashtalking, squads, missions, etc. It's overwhelming, and new players get it all at once which is why retention of new players is low.

HTC's solution seems to be to dilute the actions so new players have a chance, but the side effects are obvious. And is it really working? How is new player retention?

I submit a strategy change may be in order. There are 4 arenas with extremely low usage (one of the WWI, EW, MW, AvA). Perhaps one could be converted to  'New Player" arena. If it's true HTC discouraes large arena's becaue it drives noobs out of the game. This might be a better alternative.



People with new ideas like this always seem to miss the key issue,ignore our posts and why we do things,  and then try shove what they want off on someone else. The dynamics you miss are staggering.

1. The new player arena would be much smaller and would barely effect the none free arena.

    Your rpg example would prevent new and low level players from playing together. This is typicly not done in RPG leveling games.

    Having a new player arena would pretty much eliminate help from other players on how things work, hence nobody would know anything in that arena.

    It would instantly put a bad taste in new players mouths in that the marketing would say free play, but was limited only to a "Lessor" arena.

    this is only a start on the new player arena.

The other issues you ignore.

You have still hit a glass ceiling in the main,  if you do not understand that there is a point at which how many players are  in one arena starts making the game play less fun.
If you do not agree with this premise, then why would you wish to have a new player arena in the first place. So what you saying is the new player has fun in the new player arena, but once he subscribes he now goes into the same overcrowded arena and then quits for the same reason, HE WAS NOT HAVING FUN IN AN OVER CROWDED ARENA!


So now you have lost more people do to the issue of new people only arena and people not helping them.
You have lost more people do to having to make new friends and learn a new game play methodology again after just subscribing.
You have not solved the fundamental problem of over crowding in the arena, hence less fun, and hence less subscription.

HiTech








  



Offline MrMeanie

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #100 on: May 24, 2010, 02:58:00 PM »
People with new ideas like this always seem to miss the key issue,ignore our posts and why we do things,  and then try shove what they want off on someone else. The dynamics you miss are staggering.

1. The new player arena would be much smaller and would barely effect the none free arena.

    Your rpg example would prevent new and low level players from playing together. This is typicly not done in RPG leveling games.

    Having a new player arena would pretty much eliminate help from other players on how things work, hence nobody would know anything in that arena.

    It would instantly put a bad taste in new players mouths in that the marketing would say free play, but was limited only to a "Lessor" arena.

    this is only a start on the new player arena.

The other issues you ignore.

You have still hit a glass ceiling in the main,  if you do not understand that there is a point at which how many players are  in one arena starts making the game play less fun.
If you do not agree with this premise, then why would you wish to have a new player arena in the first place. So what you saying is the new player has fun in the new player arena, but once he subscribes he now goes into the same overcrowded arena and then quits for the same reason, HE WAS NOT HAVING FUN IN AN OVER CROWDED ARENA!


So now you have lost more people do to the issue of new people only arena and people not helping them.
You have lost more people do to having to make new friends and learn a new game play methodology again after just subscribing.
You have not solved the fundamental problem of over crowding in the arena, hence less fun, and hence less subscription.

HiTech








  




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Offline Vinkman

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #101 on: May 24, 2010, 03:12:08 PM »
Dale,
first, thanks for the response. Let me clarify by answering your points.



1. The new player arena would be much smaller and would barely effect the none free arena.

Is this a typo, I have no idea what a 'none free Arena" is.

Quote

    Your rpg example would prevent new and low level players from playing together. This is typicly not done in RPG leveling games.

How so? It precisely means new and low level players would play together.

Quote

    Having a new player arena would pretty much eliminate help from other players on how things work, hence nobody would know anything in that arena.

Perhaps. it depends on how many of the trainers, registered experts would go over to that arena to lend expertise. (ilo of flaming)

Quote

    It would instantly put a bad taste in new players mouths in that the marketing would say free play, but was limited only to a "Lessor" arena.

it's not limited. The guy could read and click the waiver....or maybe you skipped that part of my post.  


Quote
You have still hit a glass ceiling in the main,  if you do not understand that there is a point at which how many players are  in one arena starts making the game play less fun.

Many of your customers don't agree with you, which is the reason this and many threads like it keep the boards busy.

Quote
...then why would you wish to have a new player arena in the first place. So what you saying is the new player has fun in the new player arena, but once he subscribes he now goes into the same overcrowded arena and then quits for the same reason, HE WAS NOT HAVING FUN IN AN OVER CROWDED ARENA!


I'm suggesting that they aren't quitting because it's crowded, but that they aren't yet ready to handle a crowd of ace pilots.

Quote
So now you have lost more people do to the issue of new people only arena and people not helping them.

this is where I'd have my trainers and volunteers, with a specific goal of being in the arena for instruction, not kill scoring.

Quote
You have lost more people do to having to make new friends and learn a new game play methodology again after just subscribing.

Of course you make friends with the new people in the new player arena, and the MA should you choose to go straight there.

Quote
You have not solved the fundamental problem of over crowding in the arena, hence less fun, and hence less subscription.

I wasn't trying to. I think crowds are great. I think I was solving the problem of retaining new players because it was suggested that you implemented the split MA policy because of the environment that crowds have on new players. If you are saying that crowds just plain ruin game play, it has not been explained, by you, why that is.

Vinkman

« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 03:18:17 PM by Vinkman »
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Offline Vinkman

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #102 on: May 24, 2010, 03:12:50 PM »
and to avoid some dweeb wanting to prove something goes in there and kills everybody and demands to be known as a king, maybe once you reach a certain "level" of skill then you wont be allowed in there, unless you are a trainer.

semp

that's the idea Semp :aok
Who is John Galt?

Offline ZetaNine

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #103 on: May 24, 2010, 03:14:26 PM »
this is the one that's disturbing to me....

"You have still hit a glass ceiling in the main,  if you do not understand that there is a point at which how many players are  in one arena starts making the game play less fun."

at least I understand where it's coming from now.  I'll respectfully disagree with it..and drop it.

Offline Vinkman

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Re: HiTech, your thoughs about removing Titanic Tuesday...
« Reply #104 on: May 24, 2010, 03:14:50 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 03:28:04 PM by Skuzzy »
Who is John Galt?