P51 Mustang into the crowd at the Reno Races just now

[W7LPNRICK]

A video showed up on TV showing the entire roll to impact. I'm sure they will Frame-by-Frame analyze it to see if they can determine pilot position, consciousness, etc. Too sad....

[Megalodon]

The questions I have:

If the elevator is leaving the plane at the attitude of the plane that it shows, what is the response the elevator makes before it detaches from the plane?

Does it waggle or flap loosely?

If it breaks or looses input, does it instantaneously fly off?

Do the elevators have to do more work/carry more load with the clipped wings?

Here is another video shown this morning and the part in question. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw2CETrj_Ao  There was a forward video in the plane and something similar to a black box that not only recorded the data it sent it in real time to the ground.


  ers to all involved,

[Yeager]

would the wings being chopped allow the plane to roll easier?

Roll easier? sure, and I would imagine making any recovery from departed flight far more difficult.   That airplane was a tragedy looking to happen. 

[Golfer]

Roll easier? sure, and I would imagine making any recovery from departed flight far more difficult.   That airplane was a tragedy looking to happen. 

That's a hugely ignorant comment in addition to being wrong.

[Yeager]

That's a hugely ignorant comment in addition to being wrong.

Removing 1/3 of each outer wing should make for a better roll.  No?  

Departing controlled flight ie stall, should be harder to regain with less surface area.  No?

That airplane was modded out to hell and back.  It simply got too hot for safe flight in my judgement.  You disagree?  Ok  

[Shuffler]

You realize the wing configuration was not the cause. Looking at the video it is obvious it was a failure of the trim tab on one side.

When shortening the wing I doubt they removed or lessened any of the control surfaces. The plane still had plenty of lift with less drag.

[Megalodon]

When shortening the wing I doubt they removed or lessened any of the control surfaces.

A podcast uploaded to YouTube back in June has Jimmy Leeward discussing the plane.
He said his crew cut five feet off each wing and shortened the ailerons to half their original length, the back edge of the main wings used to control balance. They also removed the air scoop on the belly.

[Shuffler]

Interesting.....  although seeing as how they are not needing quick roll rate I guess I can see why....

One vid of him talking about his plane was removed from another site. Probably because of traffic.

[Yeager]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/18/national/main20108037.shtml

"The 65-year-old "Galloping Ghost" underwent years of massive overhauls that took a full 10 feet off its wingspan. The ailerons -- the back edges of the main wings used to control balance -- were cut from about 60 inches to 32.

Pilot Jimmy Leeward had said the changes made the P-51 Mustang faster and more maneuverable, but in the months before Friday's crash even he wasn't certain exactly how it would perform.

"I know it'll do the speed," he said in a podcast uploaded to YouTube in June. "The systems aren't proven yet. We think they're going to be OK. ""

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That airplane was too damned hot.  The one thing I will take away from this tragedy is a deep disappointment that spectators were allowed to be in such close proximity to the racing circuit, so as to be practically underneath the airplanes.  What a tragic thought process.

[F22RaptorDude]

I'm confused, I saw in a picture that the trim edges on the back of the left elevator came off, I don't think that would bring a plane down would it?

[Golfer]

"I know it'll do the speed," he said in a podcast uploaded to YouTube in June. "The systems aren't proven yet. We think they're going to be OK. ""

=====
That airplane was too damned hot.  The one thing I will take away from this tragedy is a deep disappointment that spectators were allowed to be in such close proximity to the racing circuit, so as to be practically underneath the airplanes.  What a tragic thought process.

Again your conclusions are wrong and I'm very confident the context is skewed way way way out of where it should be.

Not to mention you actually don't know where/why/how the spectators are separated from the end boundary of the circuit. 2000' and just like a regular airshow you don't carry momentum toward the crowd. This accident could NOT be planned for.

[Golfer]

I'm confused, I saw in a picture that the trim edges on the back of the left elevator came off, I don't think that would bring a plane down would it?

It's been explained just how it can. By me, by others. What caused the separation of the trim tab will be interesting to learn if possible.

[crockett]

It's been explained just how it can. By me, by others. What caused the separation of the trim tab will be interesting to learn if possible.

I think what they were getting at is maybe the changes made to the plane made it much harder to control once something did go wrong. Granted these planes are built to do 1 specific thing and that's go fast and turn along a racing course but you can't say cutting 5 feet off the plane's wings as well as reducing the control surfaces is not going to affect how the aircraft handles.

You can't really treat this like a normal aviation accident because normal planes fall under known specifics as far as their testing and so forth. These types of mods greatly affect how the aircraft flys and who knows how it would react once something breaks.

Not trying to vilify the guy as I'm sure he was a great person, it's just this accident should be a wake up call if nothing else that things need to be looked at a bit closer with these type of events. The same bad things have happened in auto racing over the years and because of the accidents racing has become safer for both the drivers & the spectators. Early races for example, drivers used to show up with roll cages built out of wood and spectators used to line their cars or stand along the edges of the tracks. (morons still stand along the track sides in droves in off road racing & rally racing)

[RichardDarkwood]

A podcast uploaded to YouTube back in June has Jimmy Leeward discussing the plane.
He said his crew cut five feet off each wing and shortened the ailerons to half their original length, the back edge of the main wings used to control balance. They also removed the air scoop on the belly.

In 1949 Bill Odom wrecked his P-51 into a house in Cleveland and he died as well as two people who were in the house. The wings were not trimmed on that plane to my knowledge. This was an accident plane and simple. A very tragic accident.

Big shout out to the Huey, Viet-Nam vets keeping it real.

[Chalenge]

I think the trim tab played only a peripheral role in this accident. Despite what Widewings friend said the nose isnt trimmed down that much and the pilot in this case was certainly trained to handle events like that. However...

The trim tab problem came to the attention of the pilot just as he approached a critical part of the course. Anyone that has flown on this course should know that. The problem facing the pilot wasnt "how do I get this down?" but "do I stay in the race or exit now?" and he had to make that decision very quickly or the choice would be made for him when he crossed the "deadline" (sorry... thats what its called). Having made the decision to stay in the race the pilot then HAD to pull hard enough that he blacked out.

Thats the only role the trim tab played in this. It forced a decision that the pilot may have made many many times before. This time it didnt work out.

Godspeed Jimmy.