Me 410 data

[Megalodon]

Me410A documents .pdf

https://viewer.zoho.com/docs/txv5j

Good for 30 days,

 

[Krusty]

I may have posted that same thing to photobucket, an image for each page.

http://s814.photobucket.com/albums/zz63/krustacious/Me410%20scans/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ16 (few other images in there too, just some things used on this forum)

[Vadjan-Sama]

Nice to see that a non EU bird made it to the end and a pretty cool one but... we can have the yak-3  too mom??? pls pls pls pls pls pls 

[Scherf]

(Image removed from quote.)

The speed on the deck for the Me410 will probably be higher in AH than the one I listed on that table.

I'm almost positive the speed listed on the deck there for the Me 410 is at Steig- und Kampfleistung, = MIL power, not WEP. Not sure I've ever seen a WEP curve for the 410.

Also bear in mind that as a Zerstoerer, the 410's engines weren't rigged for maximum power down low (in contrast to the Merlin 25s on the Mosquito VI). The 410 develops its top speed at a much greater altitude than the Mossie VI, the better to intercept high-flying buffs.

Edit - Looking at the pdf docco posted above, the 410 does 366 mph at 21,000 feet at MIL power.

[morfiend]

 Scherf,

 Did you convert that? all I saw was 590km at 5500m.  I didnt convert it but I think it's close to what you posted.



   I take it thats at Mil and not a wep rating?  my german is next to none. Did you see an ATA rating anywheres,it escaped me.



   

[Volron]

So, just out of curiousity... why would you ask for the 110s to be update with the 410? I replied the way I did because normally such requests accompany "similar" airfames, as moot mentioned the 152 and the 190s, or say updating the FM-2 when the F4F-4 gets redone.

In hindsight I see how you can mean other things, that at the time of replying I hadn't considered.

No worries.   I am well aware that the models are completely different, but I am hoping that they do decide to update them when the 410 get's added.  I know they are low in the update list, but I was thinking, "Will we get a package deal?".  Besides, with how good they are doing the new planes, I can only drool at how the 110's will look when they get around to them.   My guess though, would be that the Lancaster and/or B-26 will be one of the next planes updated at the 410's arrival.  Those two airframes are used quite a bit, so it's not all that outrageous.

Volron it's not like we know HTC's minds but common sense says there's not too good odds the 110 gets worked if 410's added.  E.G.  the 152 was left out of 190 updates.  It might've been because of lack of time, but whatever the reason, you can see it's not exactly promising for that prospect. 

Well you can't blame me for hoping, can you?

[Scherf]

Scherf,

 Did you convert that? all I saw was 590km at 5500m.  I didnt convert it but I think it's close to what you posted.



   I take it thats at Mil and not a wep rating?  my german is next to none. Did you see an ATA rating anywheres,it escaped me.



   

Heya Morph,

Yes, I did convert that. 590 km/h = 366 mph exactly, according to the web converter I used, I think I took the altitude to be 6,350m = 20,833 feet.

On page 9 of the docco, below the table which gives speed at alt and time to alt, there's the sentence "Die angegebenen Leistungen sind mit Kampfleistung (1,3 Ladedruck und 2,500 U/min) geflogen." Translates as: "The performance figures listed were flown with Military Power (1.3 [ata] boost and 2,500 rpm)."

On page 10, where the graphs are, there is a handwritten title on the right-hand side, running top to bottom. It reads "Flugleistungen mit Steig- u. Kampfleistung (n = 2500 U/min, 1,3 ata) bei verschied. Startgewicht". Translates as "Flight Performance at Climb and Combat Power (2,500 rpm, 1.3 ata) at various weights."

As described at the bottom of page 9, the weights are 11.3 tonnes (ie. 11,300 kg) and 9.5 tonnes. The former is the maximum permissible takeoff weight, and the latter is an average return-flight weight. That paragraph goes on to say that extermal bombs (4x50kg) knock around 10 km/h off the speeds, and that the figures were flown with the Me 410 A-1 and are valid for the A-1/U-2 U/4, A-2 and A-3, so long as they are not equipped with external tanks or air-to-air mortars.

[Wmaker]

I'm almost positive the speed listed on the deck there for the Me 410 is at Steig- und Kampfleistung, = MIL power, not WEP. Not sure I've ever seen a WEP curve for the 410.

It's that speed which I extrapolated from this doc for WEP:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,299977.0.html

So yes, it's for WEP but since then I came across this very interesting chart on this BBS (don't remember who posted it):


That gives 20km/h faster speed with Steig -und Kampfleistung than the previous doc. Extrapolating from that, I arrvied to a figure of ~329mph with WEP.

A quote from Moot from that 410-speed thread:

From Generalluftzeugmeister meeting notes, dated 6/15/43

"In the area of the Angriffsfuhrer England [Generalmajor Dietrich Peltz?], an Me 410 is said to have increased its speed by 40 kph [25 mph] through the use of filler paste, something which possibly indicates the potential of this measure, or the poor build quality."

I'm guessing that the Me410 in AH will do something between 329-340mph on the deck.

[PR3D4TOR]

How did you extrapolate speed at WEP from a chart that's clearly labeled Steig und Kampfleistung (MIL)?

[Scherf]

I believe that second chart first appeared in, of all things, the pdf evaluation report of the DB-engined captured Spitfire.

I take it Notleistung in the DB603 is 1.42 ata?

[Scherf]

I believe that second chart first appeared in, of all things, the pdf evaluation report of the DB-engined captured Spitfire.

I take it Notleistung in the DB603 is 1.42 ata?

Edit - Meh, answered my own question, WMaker posted a DB603 power curve over on the other thread.

[Wmaker]

How did you extrapolate speed at WEP from a chart that's clearly labeled Steig und Kampfleistung (MIL)?

Using the data and the parameters of the aircraft and the equation below:

The basic speed equation for piston engined aircraft: V=((2*eta*P)/(rho*S*Cd))^(1/3)

Where:

eta = prop efficiency
P = power
rho = air density at given alt
S = wing wet area
Cd = Drag Coefficient

[Debrody]

Maker, your linked picture shows that the 410 could reach 600km/h ~ 370mph at about 20k altitude while it did around 315-320 on the deck. Thats with the DB-603 engine, 1.3 ata.
Unfortunately im not sure whats the exact difference between the DB-603 and the 605, also i have no information about  which ata settings it could reach.
If it could do 1.42 as wep, like the DB-605A, then the Me-410 would be faster than the 109 G-6 on the deck (according to your chart). That means, its faster that 335mph, maybe 337-340, whats fairly good.
A bit confused about the high-altitude performance. Looks like the speed curve is dropping compared to the DB-605 models, and tops out at a lower altitude. Its strange, couse i thought the DB-603's compressor was designed for a higher-altitude performance. If im right, the DB-605/AS was basically a DB-605A equipped with the 603's compressor, and it had the peak in the top speed at 27k. Possibly that was an other version of the DB-603.

Btw the engine performance looks competitive, even tho the climb rate would be a bit weak (like 2500 feet/min)

[Pyro]

Thanks for the docs.   

[Wmaker]

Unfortunately im not sure whats the exact difference between the DB-603 and the 605, also i have no information about  which ata settings it could reach.

One could roughly say that the DB603 is an enlarged DB601 depending on how one wants to look at it. DB605 was basically a bored 601 with more effective supercharger. While 605s displacement was 35,7 liters the DB603 had a displacement of 44,5 liters.

Here are the power curves for DB603:


So 1.4ata@2700rpm is the WEP-power setting.

If it could do 1.42 as wep, like the DB-605A, then the Me-410 would be faster than the 109 G-6 on the deck (according to your chart). That means, its faster that 335mph, maybe 337-340, whats fairly good.

Well like I said, based on the chart I posted which is dated 17.2.44, I got a figure of ~329mph with WEP (1.4ata@2700rpm).

A bit confused about the high-altitude performance. Looks like the speed curve is dropping compared to the DB-605 models, and tops out at a lower altitude. Its strange, couse i thought the DB-603's compressor was designed for a higher-altitude performance. If im right, the DB-605/AS was basically a DB-605A equipped with the 603's compressor, and it had the peak in the top speed at 27k. Possibly that was an other version of the DB-603.

In the DB603 the same supercharger is feeding a much bigger displacement than in the DB605. I'm sure that that largerly contributes to the lower FTH.