Author Topic: Retract GV Dar.  (Read 3868 times)

Offline Ciaphas

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2017, 06:10:04 PM »
The vehicle running sups is at least at the front where the action is.

Besides, the ability for a single player to find another should not depend on a 3rd party.


So, is it not a good idea because it’s contrary to your personal preference in play style and what’s is a valued piece of the puzzle?

Reading both of these threads, it seems to me and probably many others that it’s a chest beating contest with no real constructive talking points. When someone brings up an idea opposite what not only you but some of the others think it’s automatically discarded as a waste of time. It seems as though very few of you actually want a resolution or common ground, you all just seem to be content beating your chests over a video game, let that sink in, a video game.

If nothing constructive can be said and no common ground can be reached, why even post?


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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2017, 06:27:19 PM »

So, is it not a good idea because it’s contrary to your personal preference in play style and what’s is a valued piece of the puzzle?

Reading both of these threads, it seems to me and probably many others that it’s a chest beating contest with no real constructive talking points. When someone brings up an idea opposite what not only you but some of the others think it’s automatically discarded as a waste of time. It seems as though very few of you actually want a resolution or common ground, you all just seem to be content beating your chests over a video game, let that sink in, a video game.

If nothing constructive can be said and no common ground can be reached, why even post?


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You misunderstand me somewhat.

Your idea is bad because it is not congruent with the existing methods for transmitting intel to the players. The aircraft dar bar has always represented spotters, intel gatherers, and combat controlers as well as their ability to relay that intel. No 3rd party needed.

The new dar is another tool that represents the same chain of intel gathering and distrobution, only pertaining to GV's.

My personal beliefs have little to do with it.
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2017, 06:32:42 PM »
If nothing constructive can be said and no common ground can be reached, why even post?

Because I believe that the changes being made are to the betterment of the game. They are not only for you to see, but also HTC. Some complainers are acting like Chicken Little and I do not want them to dominate the debate with their overreaction.
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Offline Ciaphas

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2017, 06:36:26 PM »
I get ya man, for me I kind of like the GVDar but if it can be implemented in a way that gets most everyone saying “yeah, that’s cool!” Than it’s worth looking at all avenues to do so. Know what I mean?


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Offline SPKmes

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2017, 06:50:54 PM »
Glad you are so successful at it.

How would you grade your ease with hunting GV's before the dar?

Far too ... that it has become a bore of sorts.... yes there were the grievers ( and as I have said...I would do my grid search for a good amount of time then go off to another area to get some action...all the while watching the town through the clipboard to see if there had been any changes)....but there were also guys who didn't run the straight line from the spawn...who made you actually engage in a battle of sorts.... this is now gone.... now there is no chance to fly a goon in and hide it close....now if the town is flashing and there is no GVdar then it must be an NOE or...some cheeky bugger has slipped a goon in...Yes there are still a few that do this....Now I know there is a GV and I know where he is basically... I didn't have to wait for a town to flash or a host announcement about my sheep... he is there...in no mans land but we are so awesome that we put an observer out there...

I do believe the no icon in the trees is a problem but there must be some other way round it to at least even things up a little for the ground pounder....


Offline +Kilroy+

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2017, 08:38:36 AM »
The main point of the game is not about winning the war, that is an option to entertain people as one of many options to entertain many diverse interests. The MA is about balancing all of those options so an individual only has the ability to affect the game as an individual, not disproportionate to the outcome a single individual can express. Why you have to put together a large bomber mission or large group of players to do a proportionate amount of damage. One reason for no nuke or tallboy.

Balance is at the heart of the game because of all the competing interests. When you look at most of Hitech's out of the blue adjustments like the GVDAR from that perspective, it's obvious even if you want to argue till the cows come home he is stomping personally on GVs. Right now the GVDAR is addressing being able to dictate the whole night's outcome for a larger group of players with a single tank. Painting 1\2 mile of grass around every field and town would have solved most of this. Same kind of urge by the strat runners and the 49ers when they went ballistic over Hitech adjusting the HQ settings in AH2. They had discovered a way to dictate the fun of a larger group with a disproportionate effort to the level of the outcome. They can still attack the HQ in the same manner they once did, it will take a proportional amount of effort to over come the HQ change which means numbers of players.

GVDAR means a single tank no longer dictates the outcome for a large group of players because of the klingon cloaking trees. The game is not about 1 player dictating outcomes to many players unless that player is the pinnacle of possible skill like kappa taking on 5 planes and landing 5 kills. The trees making tanks assume an invisibility cloak grants a single tank a disproportionate amount of ability to the real ability of the individual player. In other FPS games you would be reporting that player to the MODS for finessing the game.

At one time Hitech changed the DAR minimum to 65ft from 250ft because everyone during the 400 player a night era avoided combat and attacked undefended feilds. I doubt sneaking around is something Hitech ever intended with his combat simulation. The MA is not a war simulation like FSO or other SEA arena WW2 events. If it was, the rules governing my terrain building would not be about balance.

Let's break this down, shall we?

The main point of the game is not about winning the war, that is an option to entertain people as one of many options to entertain many diverse interests. The MA is about balancing all of those options so an individual only has the ability to affect the game as an individual, not disproportionate to the outcome a single individual can express. Why you have to put together a large bomber mission or large group of players to do a proportionate amount of damage. One reason for no nuke or tallboy.

The point of the game is to provide entertainment, in exchange for subscription fee's, is that not the case? And the entertainment is some variation of dogfighting WW 2 planes. We in agreement so far? Ok, so this "option" is something that is offered by the creators because, as you say, people have diverse interests. Is it acceptable, that one of those diverse interests, is continuity of the platform, whatever it is? You say you offer something, I agree to pay for that something. If you offer vehicles to affect the game, I do indeed pay to use those, be they Spit 16's or Sherman tanks. I don't care about your disproportionate damage, that is some factor that dovetails into YOUR need to sell subscriptions. All I can say is that it better work for me too.

Balance is at the heart of the game because of all the competing interests. When you look at most of Hitech's out of the blue adjustments like the GVDAR from that perspective, it's obvious even if you want to argue till the cows come home he is stomping personally on GVs. Right now the GVDAR is addressing being able to dictate the whole night's outcome for a larger group of players with a single tank. Painting 1\2 mile of grass around every field and town would have solved most of this. Same kind of urge by the strat runners and the 49ers when they went ballistic over Hitech adjusting the HQ settings in AH2. They had discovered a way to dictate the fun of a larger group with a disproportionate effort to the level of the outcome. They can still attack the HQ in the same manner they once did, it will take a proportional amount of effort to over come the HQ change which means numbers of players.

Balance is at the heart of the game, because judgement dictates games with disproportionate opportunities do not sell well. Stack this game up against similar platforms and the implication, based on the above truism, is that the game has disproportionate opportunities. The statement "the whole night's outcome for a larger group of players" requires an extreme leap of faith, specifically based on these "many diverse interests." Using myself as an example, I spent years flying my Sp16 to the biggest dar bar and was thoroughly content with that. No amount of gv's could have dictated anything beyond the fact that I might have had to take off from a different airfield.

 So in the end, when we distill out all the other factors, we see that gv dar is affecting, maybe, the outcome of the war, one of "many options to entertain many diverse interests." Why then, is there this intense focus on gv activity, one of the many diverse options, to affect the outcome of the war, simply another of many equally diverse options?

Seems to me the old crow's got content and lazy ruling the roost, hell some of you haven't flown in years. Now this new fangled gv thing comes along that you can't lorde over, so you got to nerf it down. Fine, turn it back into a dogfight simulator, just keep using those bombs to vulch because I'm not going to be your killbait, duh.



Offline icepac

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2017, 10:53:40 PM »
I like to perform most every type of mission possible in the sim but I find less and less variety.

It's as if the sim caters to people who have been flying the same stale mission profile for 15 years and that the changes are starting to funnel the entire player base into the stagnent gameplay.

Offline JimmyD3

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2017, 07:27:15 AM »
Because I believe that the changes being made are to the betterment of the game. They are not only for you to see, but also HTC. Some complainers are acting like Chicken Little and I do not want them to dominate the debate with their overreaction.

You sir and your concept of how the GV game should be are what is dominating this discussion.
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Offline bustr

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2017, 05:36:53 PM »
On my new terrain I'm still at least a month from worrying about GV spawns. Still I really need to know if Hitech has presented his final version of GVDAR or is he still tweaking it. GVDAR as is kind of blows holes in the reasoning for GV spawn distances since GV's were first introduced. Distance was used to give defenders a chance to put up a defense against GV's and a chance to save their town. Without GVDAR I ended up with spawns 3 miles from the town or airfield map room as a good compromise for attackers and defenders. Painting a 1\2 mile strip of grass around the town and airfield leveled the playing field that was skewed by the invisible tanks.

I understand Hitech's position of wanting "combat" and not everyone playing protagonist roles in a game of GV Ninja Turtles all night.

Ask the question: if a panzer tank in real life goes off a road and drives across several feilds as a short cut to a town, will it leave an easy trail to follow?

The answer to that has verged on accusing you of being something Skuzzy would ban the accuser for if they used the real words. This means the GVers don't really have an argument they want to allow light to shine on. The gist of the overall "want's" is invisible tanks that can hide from planes with bombs and dictate outcomes as solo player's. Instead of like real life needing a group of well coordinated tanks and air cover from fighter bombers.

What I need to know in spite of all of this, has Hitech stopped tinkering with GVDAR or not? At this juncture I'm thinking to be fair I have to look at two scenario, and a third with bridges and a river.

1. - Move GV spawns in to two miles from town or airfield map room center. The unintended consequence, if you don't show up to defend as soon as the GVDAR shows, your field is gone. Then GV's will dictate everyone's fun by abusing the tendency to ignore flashing feilds.

2. - Move GV spawns 4-5 miles away from the airfield, move the town out one mile farther from the airfield to the original 3 miles(maybe 2.5) from the GV spawns. Then run a short GV spawn from the field to outside the town to be fair to the GV combat game. It would take the fighter bombers longer to setup while the inbound GV's would have to get at the town ASAP and setup to defend taking the town.

3. - When I do bridges over a river next to an airfield, now I have to look at do I design the spawn path so those feilds get a Spawn on both sides of the river as a Russian roulette? Attackers would want to capture the field on purpose that drops their GV's at the spawn next to the field.  Do I keep the map room on the field and no town or, do I use a town and accept the evils of spawn camping at the bridges from the hills around the town?     

What I learned with two terrains is the GV game is about time more so than the air combat game because a tank has to spend the long time investment traveling from the spawn which makes them vulnerable to bombs. GVDAR will shorten the time expended in general in favor of defenders with bombs. So shortening the distance to the town from the GVspawn and from the airfield GV hanger is fair to those protagonist GV game players while being one of several evils where planes with bombs are concerned. And a horrible choice of evils if defenders choose to ignore the GVDAR.

So I need to know what GVDAR will be to make my future design decisions.   
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2017, 07:55:28 PM »
So I need to know what GVDAR will be to make my future design decisions.   


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Offline 1lobo

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2017, 10:30:17 PM »
I have to agree with 27th… 

The GVDAR has shifted the balance in the game too far in the favor of other players.  I understand the concerns that some have that a single tank can get into a field and do damage but in most cases before the GVDAR a single GV had a short life particularly when other GV players jumped in to defend.  At the same time a single bomber/fighter with bombs flying into a tank town area also wrecks the fun for other GV players too, so in many respects the old features of the game was already in balance.

As for a GV getting onto a VBase and taking control isn’t that already part of the game that a GV base can be taken over by other GV?   Look at the way the single GV bases are setup in maps to promote control of an area, now with GVDAR the air has a significant advantage in finding any attacker.
 
I think the changes in the GVDAR to the blocks has helped but it is still very directional so everyone knows where you are coming from and unlike airfield radar it is NEVER out….  The goal sure has been accomplished in protecting airbase as the new GVDAR prevents ANY attempts to get to an air field regardless of the number of GV who attempt to get to an airbase.

A couple of suggestions around the GVDAR if it is going to stay….

** Link it to the airfield radar….  No airfield radar no GVDAR either and keep it within the range of the airfield radar.

** Build some maps which would promote GV battles where GV would focus on GV fights (like some of the old AHII days) and air could go do their thing.  Then if a squad wants to work together in a combine Air/GV mission they could.

Offline Biggamer

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2017, 01:54:07 AM »
if you are hunting a tank under a tree that aint doing anything you are not looking for combat you are looking for easy kills you want combat go hunt down a plane.  GVs was already a sitting duck as it was now there is very little chance for one to live.  instead of crying about the GVs setting on the ground with no where to go. cry about the 95% of the fighter pilots in game that wont fight unless they got the sure win and run and HIDE when they dont.  maybe something needs done about fighters not engaging once you get within 6k you must engage that person within say 2 mins if not you just explode if you are the plane running then you are the one who blows up.  if we are gonna put GVs in a box forcing them to engage then fighters should be the same
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2017, 05:03:28 AM »
if you are hunting a tank under a tree that aint doing anything you are not looking for combat you are looking for easy kills

No, I'm looking to eliminate a threat to my base. He didn't spawn here to anjoy the countryside.
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Offline lunatic1

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2017, 10:32:57 AM »
why is devil 505 even commenting here-he doesn't do any gv'ing
and as far as I know neither does waystin.

+1 on 27th's wish
the flyers want gv dar so they can bomb**** or kill them with cannon easier
and yes I have complained about it being hard to find a gv when his engine is shut down.
but all gv dar is doing now is promoteing the gv either sit under a tree for an hour or run away.
and I'm talking while I'm in a tank or a plane.
without gv dar the gv would keep moving until he/she heard or saw the plane/tank.

dump the gv dar-
some call this a WWII sim--I call it Flight Sim using WWII assets and information, in either case they never had GV radar and the planes never had radar that could pick up gvs..true the radar only shows an area where they are but even that is too much.

Dump the GV Dar please

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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Retract GV Dar.
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2017, 11:04:56 AM »
why is devil 505 even commenting here-he doesn't do any gv'ing

Because I play this game.

GV'ing was never intended to be completely separate from the overall game experience, but it became just that because of the GV icon rules and the denser trees in AH3.

The GV Dar was implemented to increase interaction between aircraft and GV's. Unfortunately for you GV'ers, that puts a target on your back. But that target means that there are more low level aircraft looking for you, which means more planes in the air for guys like me to kill. Since most players still fly planes, this is a positive change overall.

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