The orgin of the blue swastikas in the AH's Bf-109G-2.

[Wmaker]

Couple of days ago in the CT I saw one guy saying that he would like to fly the G-2 but he feels unconfortable because of the swastikas painted on it. I explained to him that they have nothing to do with Nazi regime and that Blue swastika was national insignia of the Finnish Airforce between 1918 and 1945. He believed right away and we could discuss about it in good understanding without any hard feelings. He thanked for the lesson and took G-2 for a spin. If you are reading this, . Everyone I've tried to explain it haven't taken it so well... I've known this as far as I can remember and that's why I always forget how it isn't very clear to everybody, especially for foreigners.

The following is a quote from the home page of VLeLv Icebreakers (http://www.compart.fi/icebreakers/). They are currently flying in WarBirds, WW2OL and Il-2. I highly recommend visiting on their pages, especially the history section. Anyway, what I came to tell you I couldn't say any better than this:

For those not "in the know" do not start shooting off your mouth about our squadron insignia before you know better. That is not the nazi swastika you see there, but a Von Rosen cross which was the insignia of the Finnish Air Force (FAF) from 1918 to 1945 - estabilished way before a certain Austrian corporal made a similar symbol infamous with his national socialistic ideology. For that very reason the FAF was forced to change it's insignia to the current blue and white roundel.

   
The common foreigner would have not believed it has nothing to do with the nazis anyway. But as you are now here, we can safely assume that you are either a current or potential WarBirds pilot. Which means you probably are educated enough in the history of aerial combat to indeed know better. In case you are not, here is a quick crash course on that certain aspect of FAF history:

It is called a Von Rosen cross because the first two airplanes, Thulin Parasols - licence-built copies of a Morane Saulnier design - that formed the FAF were donated by a Swedish count Erik Von Rosen shortly after Finland's independence from the chaos of Russian revolution. The cross was the traditional symbol of good luck for the Von Rosen family. They probably had picked it up from Indian Aryan mythology where the swastika is a symbol for the Sun and, incidentally, good luck.

We display the cross proudly, aware of its true and lethal heritage, and furious at a crazy dictator who stole and dishonoured it. Our Hornets would sure look more handsome with the Von Rosen crosses on their shiny plastic wings. Oh well, those were the days of iron planes and er... depleted uranium men.

I hope everyone who reads this tries to explain/correct a person who is referring to G-2 as "nazi-plane" or similar in AH.

[Seeker]

Those of us in the know fully acept the Finns are not, and were never "fake Germans".

They're fake Swedes........

[Charge]

Aargh Seeker!!! That hurt! Not that there is anything wrong with swedes...we just love to hate each other...

-Charge+

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Wmaker
Couple of days ago in the CT I saw one guy saying that he would like to fly the G-2 but he feels unconfortable because of the swastikas painted on it.
                      *                        *                        *
I hope everyone who reads this tries to explain/correct a person who is referring to G-2 as "nazi-plane" or similar in AH.

LOL!  The swastikas make it a Nazi plane?  What were all those other planes with the big black crosses on them, then?

- Oldman

[Wmaker]

Oldman,

This guy I'm talking about never called it "a nazi plane" just didn't want to fly it at first because of the swastikas on it.

I have heard the word "nazi" pop up in AH when talking about G-2 but that's a long time ago and only heard it once or twice but considering the true orgins of our old Airforce insignia that's once or twice too many and that's why I wanted to post some info...to prevent it in the future.

[Wilbus]

Well, black crosses hasn't got anything to do with Nazi eithers, Luftwaffe still use Black crosses today, very cool looking crosses aswell I must say

It is the 45 degree twisted Swastika, which has unfortunatly become the symbol of something terrible.

[Vector]

S!
Swatika has long history way before nazi's took it.
But do you know whos patch is this:


Anyone?

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Well, black crosses hasn't got anything to do with Nazi eithers, Luftwaffe still use Black crosses today, very cool looking crosses aswell I must say

We aren't flying today's aircraft.  Black cross planes in WWII were Nazi planes.  It doesn't pay to forget that.

- oldman

[Vector]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Black cross planes in WWII were Nazi planes.
- oldman

According to who, besides you?
I doubt british & us pilots were thinking of fighting against nazis rather than fighting against enemy air force pilots (and sometimes even respected their opponents!).
Nazis = national socialists = german party
Luftwaffe = german air force
Let's keep these two separated.

[Nifty]

oh, come on.  every German that fought in WWII was a Nazi just like every American that fought in WWII was a Democrat, because that's who was in power at the time.  Everyone knows that!  

[kidcol]

Vector, I don't recall the unit, but it was the insignia for a Ranger unit? from , hmmm memory sucks, New Mexico maybe?

kidcol

p.s. pretty sure it was based on a Native American design

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Vector
Nazis = national socialists = german party
Luftwaffe = german air force
Let's keep these two separated.

Let's not, because they weren't.  

Equating National Socialists with a "German party" ignores the obvious; there weren't any other parties.  There was just the one.  By pretending that it had nothing to do with the rest of the populace, you're simply putting blinders on yourself to reach a happy thought that you want to reach.  Germany in WWII WAS Nazi Germany.  Those nice Nazi pilots you're trying to protect generally went through Hitler Youth training, identified themselves with the Fuehrer in adult life, and never questioned what they were doing to the rest of the world.  Not a lot of them involved in any plot to get rid of Hitler, that I've ever heard of.

And please don't substitute your desired thoughts for those of the US pilots in WWII.  The ones I've spoken to were quite clear in failing to see any distinction between Nazis and Germans.

- Oldman

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Nifty
oh, come on.  every German that fought in WWII was a Nazi just like every American that fought in WWII was a Democrat, because that's who was in power at the time.  Everyone knows that!  

Geez.  You know, the last time I saw a photo of a P-47, I don't recall that it had an elephant painted on the tail.  Why is that?

- oldman

[Ketil]

45th Infantry Div?

[crossjob]

heya guys im a austrian.
i live in Salzburg near Germany i want to say that the swastika on both wings of G-2 arent the NSDAP( Nationalistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei = National Socialist German Party)
the first cross what looks like the nazi cross was the cross of an antisemitism organization named Thule-Gesellschaft.

fact is that Germany was Nazi-Germany betwenn 1933-1945.
Hitler was was the Führer of Germany he had the power of whole Germany, it is not right to say that all germans were nazis
hitler and Goebbls wanted to hide their political way to kill all jews.
perhaps you dont know that their were some organizations who fought the nazi-regime with great effort.

i know 2 of em
1. weisse rose - white rose
2. 06 (0-o, 6-e = oe = österreich = austria)

sry but my english isnt the best but i think youll understand what i want to say.

bye