P51 Runners...

[lucky]

Here is the final word on this subject! Any bird that is fast will use it to its advantage,period runstang just happens to be a catch phrse you hear cause it rolls off the tongue smoothly,la7's run,d9's run,who gives a rats patute,just a game.Any time you come across a faster plane there is a chance they are gonna run,if ya dont like runners then fly the 262!

[lucky]

Here is the final word on this subject! Any bird that is fast will use it to its advantage,period runstang just happens to be a catch phrse you hear cause it rolls off the tongue smoothly,la7's run,d9's run,who gives a rats patute,just a game.Any time you come across a faster plane there is a chance they are gonna run,if ya dont like runners then fly the 262!

[lucky]

wow double post...I thought i said final word.....LOL

[akak]

Originally posted by Wotan
watched your film akak that wasnt bnz and the start of your film he was lower then you.

He just didnt try to execute a proper reverse you piged him a bunch he extended and and came back to fight. I never heard of that guy dar but your film has no bearing on what I was talking about.

Planes which rely on speed need to use that speed to extend and reverse. Theres nothing wrong with that and I wouldnt consider that running whether it was a 190 or any plane.

Running would have been him just extending and kept on going until he got to friendlies or waited until you got bored of following then comes back to do it again.

We were both coalt at 25k, it took me 15 minutes to grab to his alt because he was shadowing me since I took off.  I would have started the film then but it would have been a mind numbing 30 minutes long.  

Ack-Ack

[dtango]

So let me see that I understand what you're saying Wotan...

[list=1]

• The P-51 has less than a 1.0 K/D ratio for tour 31.  I'll ignore the stats that show P-51D with a 1.037 and P-51B with a 1.11 k/d ratio then.
• Let's see from Tour 31 a less then 1.0 K/D ratio demonstrates that P-51's "run" more than any other aircraft.  So I guess that means Spitfire V's and F6F's run from fights too then as well?  Wow - that's nifty logic.  
• A K/D ratio above 1.0 for the D9 demonstrates that D9's run less than P-51's.  Wow so that means Me 262's and Tempests run the least out of all the planes since they have such a high K/D ratio.
• Everyone should recognize the superiority of your squad in D9's.  Thanks for broadcasting that to the community though I have to admit I must be pretty dense since I'm not quite sure how the greatness of squads relates to the topic.

OK maybe the above was a little harsh but before we all start taking this too seriously, let me make a couple of statements:

As for me I don't mind being called a runstang (especially since it means I'm probably frustrating the heck out of someone else ).  I'm not the Red Baron and if I've met my match or have blown it I'll use whatever strengths my plane has to get out of the situation.  And I would expect any reasonable person to do the same with whatever aircraft they're flying.  (Sometimes getting out of disadvantaged situations is just as fun as anything else! )

Lucky has summed it up nicely in his post above.  My point was by poking fun at those who are whining to point out that whining about others running in fast planes makes as much sense as those in fast planes whining about being killed by the really good turn fighters (a la Spits and N1K2's etc.).

Oh, and BTW Wotan - you guys do have a good squad .

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[Wotan]

Now you are going words games and make up your meaning to what I said.

I said that for you to say "what about all all those 190d9s that run". My reply is that you exagerate "with all those 190d9s". I then said that the d9s percentage of kills per sortie , which is far less then the p51s, skew its numbers and that in fact fewer d9 sorties produce more kills. Therefore you will see fewer d9s then its percentage of kills would indicate.

The opposite is true for the p51. The p51 gets far less kills per sortie and therefore its usage is greater then what its kill percentage per tour would indicate.

Are you following this?

So in comparison you will see many many more p51s then d9s. Since my squad gets a huge percentage of the d9 kills this skews the d9 numbers even more so. This means far fewer instances of 190d9s runners per tour.

Some may run but like I said for every 1 190 you see per tour theres probrably over 5 p51 runners you will see.

Its a fact known by anyone in AH that 51s run. Dont try and deflect that by saying "well what about the xxx planes that run".

Those "xxx" planes aren't nearly as "used" as the p51. No other plane type has the reputation as a runner like the 51 has. Its a reputation that has been earned.

I have seen your guys run, I have seen other p51s run. So has the originally poster and others. It happens quite a bit. Deflect, deny, distort all you want. Its a proven fact p51s are runners.

Again I know all you 51 pilots are going to post who you never run etc........ Save your breath if my statements dont apply to you thats great.

Again I dont care how anyone flies, thats your choice but dont say 51s dont run, or that any other planes runs as much as they do. Because we both know thats not true.

[Karnak]

In my experience the P-51D and La-7 are most likely to turn tail and run when they lose the advantage.

By run I'm using Wotan's definition.  They flee until you get bored and break off, then they come back or until they join up with a bunch of friendlies.  They aren't simply extending so that they have the distance to reverse.  They're running until they see you break off, then they come back, seemingly hoping that you won't notice and will be flying nice and level and easy kill.

[J_A_B]

"No other plane type has the reputation as a runner like the 51 has."

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHA

HAHAHA.....haha......HAHAHAHA HHAHAH

This comment comming from, of all people, someone who spends a lot of time flying a 190D-9--which is likely the most consistent runner of all planes in AH, even moreso than the P-51's (although I encounter more 51's the Dora pilots run as much if not more consistently than 51 pilots will.


If you like numbers Wotan, consider that MY K/D is roughly 3 times yours....my K/S is about double yours, and my K/T is higher than yours as well.  If stats "prove" that a certain plane/pilot flies a certain way, than you MUST run more often than I do  

You RUNNER you!  

(Of course, stats/scores mean absolutely nothing, but since Wotan tried to toot his own horn I felt obligated to respond in kind heh heh heh).

In reality?  A plane that CAN run, WILL, if it needs to (and sometimes when it doesn't).  This applies to LA7's, 51's, 190G-10's, Doras and A/F-8's, Yak's, F4U's, P-47's, pretty much anything that's fighting something slower than it.  I've seen Spitfires and N1K2's run away plenty of times.   Whether a plane WILL run is more dependant on the guy at the controls than what model it is.  I don't think there IS such a thing as a "runner plane".....the problem is "runner pilots".  Heck, even running isn't bad if the guy running has a good reason to (I can hardly blame a low/slow 190 for trying to run from 5 Spits).....what I think this thread is about are the guys--and we see them in all planes--who run away even when they have the advantage, who have no agression whatsoever and are clearly afraid to press the fight.

And, when you think about it, the problem is likely made worse because "advice" commonly given to newbies is often along the lines of "don't fight unless you have the absolute advantage" and "it's stupid to fight higher planes" and such....



J_A_B

[Steve]

Wotan, you toot your squads horn enough that I thought I'd look at some numbers...considering that I fly the pony primarily.  With all your chest thumping and text about pony pilots, "timid", "runners".. "Bore and zzzzzz"  I thought I'd compare the numbers of your individual pilots to mine.. a pony pilot in his third month of flying this game. all your talk about how you guys don't run.. bnz or blah blah blah....I thought, "Wow, these guys must be some of the best pilots in the game."
Well, since you brought up k/d and kills per sortie.. let's look at those... oh heck... of your entire squad, just one guy has a better k/d than me... his name is Heinkel.  WTG Heinkel... maybe there is something to what Wotan is saying..even if only ONE of his vaunted pilots in their fabulous D9's has a better k/d than me in my pony. Oh wait... looking closer we find that Heinkel has the vast majority of kills in jap turnfighters.... not the D9.. gosh there goes that theory.  Well let's look at kills per sortie... Oh my.. NOT ONE of your fantastic D9 pilots has a kill per sortie even close to mine. Gee Wotan, what do these number mean?  Take your time and come up with something clever if ya like.. but the bottom line is your gross stereotype about pony pilots is sadly inaccurate.  Additionally, if you're going to stick with your intimation that D9 pilots, your squad included, BnZ less than pony pilots do then you need to come fly in the same arena the rest of us do.

[Heinkel]

The only reason I fly the A6M5 is becuase I enjoy CV battles a lot. The only Axis plane (fighter) off the CV is the A6M5 or A6M2. A6M2 isn't too usefull in MA, so I take the A6M5.

Just gonna roud these here:

Kills in:

A6M5: 110
Ta152: 60
109F: 15
109E: 5
109G-10: 70
109G-2: 15
110G-2: 35
190A-5: 25
190A-8: 25
190D-9: 70
190F: 5
Me262: 5
Yak9T: 20

So to sum things up
Kills in Jap planes: 110
Kills in LW planes: 330
Kills in VVS planes: 20

By far, I fly LW planes more than anything. Just beaucse A6M is at the top of the "kill stats" list, and is the first thing you see, doesn't mean thats all i fly.

[Steve]

My comments surely weren't intended as a slight to you by any stretch.  If you took it as such, I apologize.  I was really just comparing your d9 kills to your zeke kills.  Happy Hunting.

[Heinkel]

My zeke skills = not much.About 80 of them are vulches, usually by the time I get to the base, it's a vulchfest, so I just join in. Can recall 2-3 x15 kill vulch sorties. With the kills/hour stuff. Most of my planes are messed up. If you look back, it's pretty much been the same. For some reason I have everything scored under attack. I did this because when i was a newbie I always seemed to run into tanks, but be in fighter mode, so I never got credit for the kill. I then just set everything to attack, so no matter what I ran into, I would get credit. Gonna fix this next tour.

[Wotan]

it means vulch a lot steve bfd

Lets look at  kills per hour.

my kill per hour Kills / Hour   6.12

yours 6.84

my attack kill per hour 9

yours 4.68

That .72 kills more per hour while I am over 5 kills per hour more in attack.

my time online  44:24:02

yours 93:35:41

The rest of those stats mean nothing except ya vulch bit and have no life. Geesh almost 100 hours online.

The thing I brought up about the d9 overall kills was used in the context to show that total kill percentage per tour is misleading if you are trying to get an idea of usage. You follow that?

Its apparent that convincing yourself you are "good" at a computer game means something to you. The fact you invest nearly 100 hours online is evident enough that you might need a break.

But none of this has to do with the topic.

[Drunky]

Originally posted by Steve
Oh my.. NOT ONE of your fantastic D9 pilots has a kill per sortie even close to mine. Gee Wotan, what do these number mean?  Take your time and come up with something clever if ya like.. but the bottom line is your gross stereotype about pony pilots is sadly inaccurate.  Additionally, if you're going to stick with your intimation that D9 pilots, your squad included, BnZ less than pony pilots do then you need to come fly in the same arena the rest of us do.

LOL Steve...talk about gross stereotyping.

Are you saying that becuase YOU have better a k/d ratio than most of 3/JG2 that P-51's don't run more than other planes?   Okay, this time it's your logic that doesn't make sense mate.

3/JG2 doesn't fly exclusively for stats.  We fly to be effective.  We don't fly one plane exclusive either.  We fly which plane is appropriate for attacking a base, fighter sweep, or whatever.

I don't think Wotan ever said the we do not BnZ.  What he was saying is that we do not simply run when we BnZ and we don't get the kill compared to the numerous accounts of P-51's.

Please keep in mind that you might fly the P-51 and do it well.  Big for that.  You might not run.  Big for that also.  That only means that you fly it well and do not run...not everyone else.

Please also keep in mind there are more reports of P-51's with numbers advantage that run than there are of d9's.

[thrila]

Runstang and run-90 dweebs arguing over who runs the most......hehehe i like this thread.  This one gets 5 stars:)