Author Topic: Affirmative Action (Read 6291 times)

midnight Target · « **Reply #225 on:** January 20, 2003, 11:15:31 PM »

The Denny's post was just a little taste for Kanth to show that the affects of the past still linger today....

midnight Target · « **Reply #226 on:** January 20, 2003, 11:16:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron

The Internet is an amazing thing. Here's what I found:

Today, approximately half of Denny's parent company's 46,000 employees are minorities, 11 percent of them black and 31 percent Latino. Thirty-two percent of the supervisory positions are held by minorities, and for two straight years Fortune magazine has named it the "Best Company in America for Minorities."

All probably due to an Affirmative Action program.

Kanth · « **Reply #227 on:** January 20, 2003, 11:18:01 PM »

Let me show you a little taste of hate crime statistics MT

so lets look at some quick figures.

bad link:

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/BasicFactsServlet?_basicfacts=1&_mult1=22560736&_geo2=010&_current=&_action=_subjectSelected&_child_geo_id=&_lang=en

break it down by race for the United States.

2000 census

Quote

Census for the United States 2000
White 211,460,626 75.1% of the population
Black or African American 34,658,190 12.3% of the population

=======================================

US department of justice fact sheet:

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel02/2001hc.htm

Quote

The majority of known hate crime offenders 2001
(65.5 percent) were white
20.4 percent were black

Goodness, what do those figures mean.

perhaps someone could explain to me how this can be even possible while they are carrying all of those pianos.

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
The Denny's post was just a little taste for Kanth to show that the affects of the past still linger today....

midnight Target · « **Reply #228 on:** January 20, 2003, 11:21:55 PM »

Thank you Kanth,

Discrimination does affect people in terrible ways. Sometimes the hopelessness leads to crime.

Kanth · « **Reply #229 on:** January 20, 2003, 11:22:56 PM »

Of course, the piano's made them do it.

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
Thank you Kanth,

Discrimination does affect people in terrible ways. Sometimes the hopelessness leads to crime.

midnight Target · « **Reply #230 on:** January 20, 2003, 11:24:44 PM »

Well this thread was a hoot...

Night All.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #231 on:** January 21, 2003, 12:11:41 AM »

quote
------------------------
Discrimination does affect people in terrible ways. Sometimes the hopelessness leads to crime.
------------------------

do you mean like when poorer white kids have no hope of college or a decent job, thanks to the discrimination of AA. so they get together with some freinds in the same position, maybe shave their heads, strap on some boots, maybe draw a couple swastikas.

maybe they lash out at the people they percieve as the problem.

btw- you can't really blame blacks for taking advatage of AA. if somebody wanted to give me extra points while testing for a job, I'd take them too. the problem is the system not the people taking advantage of it.

StSanta · « **Reply #232 on:** January 21, 2003, 05:04:50 AM »

Mietla wrote:

No, it is not simple. The issue is not what causes disparities (race, culture, socio-ecomomics, region etc). The issue is whether it is a government's job to attempt to "compensate" people for them.

My comment was about nature vs nurture, really. The IQ/intelligence sub-thread in the AA thread. I've made my views on AA known before. Not in favour of it.

StSanta · « **Reply #233 on:** January 21, 2003, 05:10:44 AM »

MT your story:

A white man and a black man start a race. The only difference is that the black man must carry a piano. The white man easily pulls far into the lead.

About 1/2 way through, the judges decide that it isn't fair to make the black man carry the piano anymore. He puts it down and proceeds.

Is the race fair now?
How do you make it fair?
Should you make it fair?

Is a misrepresentation of reality.

More fair: A white man and a black man race. The black man must carry a piano. They have children. The black man having a bad back cannot provide the best sneakers for his kid. The kids race. When the black kid loses, he says it's because he's carrying a piano. Then the kid races a white kid whos father carried two lumps of coal and also has a bad back. The black kid is given a 10 mi nute head start because his father carried a piano. The white kind wonders whether this is right and runs directly into the arms of White Sumpremacist With Bad Sneakers.

AA is a flawed, as is your analogy. And mine. But less so.

It's the pilot, not the plane - isn't that what we say here?

midnight Target · « **Reply #234 on:** January 21, 2003, 09:59:46 AM »

Sorry SAnta, but I stand by the Analogy.

The men don't represent men they represent races. The piano represents the institutionalized racism that was previlent in our society. The racism of the past meant that most of the leadership in this country happened to be white males. Opportunity for advancement continued to be limited even though the legally sanctioned racism ceased to exist. Thus the race continues to be unfair until something is done to make up for the disparity created in the past and perpetuated today.

AKIron · « **Reply #235 on:** January 21, 2003, 10:17:40 AM »

Who can honestly argue that race discrimination hasn't led to inequalities among Americans? The disagreement is about how to fix it. And fixing it will require a lot of maybe painful self examination all around. Too many just want to sweep the problems under the rug or issues crutches without setting the break so that it may heal properly. AA is a crutch and is/was needed for the wound to heal. If it isn't healing then we need to find out why.

midnight Target · « **Reply #236 on:** January 21, 2003, 10:51:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
Who can honestly argue that race discrimination hasn't led to inequalities among Americans? The disagreement is about how to fix it. And fixing it will require a lot of maybe painful self examination all around. Too many just want to sweep the problems under the rug or issues crutches without setting the break so that it may heal properly. AA is a crutch and is/was needed for the wound to heal. If it isn't healing then we need to find out why.

Agreed.

Ping · « **Reply #237 on:** January 21, 2003, 10:57:46 AM »

Raises hand....we need to

"Be Excellent to Each other"

capt. apathy · « **Reply #238 on:** January 21, 2003, 11:14:39 AM »

though the legally sanctioned racism ceased to exist.

???

no we just picked a new victim. it's not about equality it's about revenge. the problem is that the 'privleged white upperclass' is uneffected by AA it's only the poorer whites who take it in the shorts
______________________
The men don't represent men they represent races.

you mean you're not looking at these people as individuals? not judging them on their merit as men? you're lumping them in as statistics based on what others (who happen to be of the same race) have done or experienced? how fluff'n racist. you nazi.

Kanth · « **Reply #239 on:** January 21, 2003, 11:47:20 AM »

I'd like to see an end to race/gender being a qualifying factor in anything.

That will end some of the resentment backlash that is building up and stop perpetuating some of the hatred.

Nice post, Iron, btw.

Quote

Originally posted by AKIron
Who can honestly argue that race discrimination hasn't led to inequalities among Americans? The disagreement is about how to fix it. And fixing it will require a lot of maybe painful self examination all around. Too many just want to sweep the problems under the rug or issues crutches without setting the break so that it may heal properly. AA is a crutch and is/was needed for the wound to heal. If it isn't healing then we need to find out why.