Author Topic: For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)  (Read 10136 times)

Offline TheCage

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #75 on: October 08, 2003, 06:28:28 PM »
Just perk them all and be done with it :o

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The TnB players will find this setup more comfortable since most TnB fighters are early-mid war and they'll have less speed-demons-BnZ planes buzzzing around. less, but they'll be there still.


I rest my case, fcrceing others to play the game the way you want it.   Sorry no dice.   The day HTC starts that is the day I leave.   So will many others.  I fly the P-38, and because it's a late war plane I am force to fly something else simply because there is no other models to fly?   I am sorry if my plane ruins your fun, but don't force others to play the game your way.   Unless you want to pay my way!  But I can hear the screams now, when 50% of the planes flying are all La-7s.

Offline Kweassa

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #76 on: October 08, 2003, 09:24:08 PM »
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I rest my case, forcing others to play the game the way you want it. Sorry no dice.


 3 or 4 perk points, maximum 8 in just a few planes, is going to force someone to stop flying their favorite plane? Damn, you must really suck or something, if you can't afford that price so it stops you from your favorite plane.

 Well, guess what, somebody is already forcing to play the game the way they want it - HTC puts 8~200 perks on the perked monster planes. They feel they need that much punitive perk costs to keep it under control for sake of balance. I didn't see you complaining about that.

 What I came up with is basically a revised version of what HTC is already doing, nothing more. Besides, the prices are cheaper than anything HTC offered before, and even the other massively perked planes are cut down nearly half in their price in my original suggestion. And you're saying I'm forcing others to play my own way? You think my favorite plane ain't up at the perked list?


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The day HTC starts that is the day I leave. So will many others. I fly the P-38, and because it's a late war plane I am force to fly something else simply because there is no other models to fly?


 You can't afford 3 points? Pick a F4U-1 and get three kills, and you earn enough lose three P-38s in a row. If you've been playing this game for a long time and have at least 100 perks, you have enough to die 33 times in a row. Kill Spits or N1k2s, La-7s in your P-38s like you normally do in the MA, and I'm very sure your balance sheet will always remain in profit.

 So, what's the problem? I'm suggesting a perk price, not to delete the plane from the hangar list or something, sheesh!


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I am sorry if my plane ruins your fun, but don't force others to play the game your way. Unless you want to pay my way!


 Your plane's fine, as long as people fly it like it should fly. Now, when they come plumetting in CVs five, six times in a row in a glaring kamikaze, that's not fine, by my standards. You want to fly it that way? Fine, pay 18 perks for 6 kamikaze sorties, and do what you want.


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But I can hear the screams now, when 50% of the planes flying are all La-7s.


 How much of this thread did you actually read?

 If 50% of the people flying is willing to pay 4~5 perks each time they fly La-7s, yeah, things might be that way.

 But when suggesting 3 perks on a P-38L seems to make you think I'm forcing you to do something, then I think I have a good idea that La-7s aren't going to be as numerous as you think.

 After all,  that's the whole point of this thread: restraining the "Big Five", and controlling the suicidal mentality courtesy of mega-ordnance late war fighters.

Offline TheCage

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #77 on: October 08, 2003, 10:25:31 PM »
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Damn, you must really suck or something


Yeah you just go ahead and believe that one, and I got a bridge for you to buy.  That’s about as delusional as your idea!

Offline Kweassa

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2003, 10:36:44 PM »
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Yeah you just go ahead and believe that one, and I got a bridge for you to buy. That's about as delusional as your idea!


  If you don't suck, what the hell are you complaining about?

Offline TheCage

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2003, 11:14:03 PM »
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If you don't suck, what the hell are you complaining about?


The rights of others who are not as good as you and I are!  Too many people that are flying this game are struggling just to get a kill.   It doesn't matter if your plane or mine is perked, I seriously doubt that I would ever run out of perk points.   But what about the others that are not so fortunate or blessed as we are?   If you want more variety in aircraft, a rolling plane set is the only way it can be done.   But HTC has already said no to that idea.    Just as they will say no to this idea.  

While the 38 is my main ride, it’s not the only thing I fly.   On occasion I do fly the P-51D, but there is no challenge to flying it.   When I am in a TnB mood I will fly early model planes.   But the 38 is my main ride, and having to pay for it just because it’s a late war plane is just plain stupid.   Yeah they already have planes with high perks, and for a good reason.   Perks are based on how much the plane type upsets the balance of the game play.   If you really want to do something useful, then train people to fly those early warplanes so they can deal with the late war planes.   An early warplane in the right hands is every bit as deadly if not deadlier then the average pilot in a late warplane.   Many times I have seen people flying early model planes and just kicking behinds on late war planes.  

It’s not impossible, but in order for a person to do it he has to fly his plane from the strengths of his aircraft while forcing the opponent to fly his plane to it’s weaknesses.   This I know you understand, as your are a very good pilot.  But for many they don’t know this and get into bad habits that get them killed.   Oh and before you try the come back well why don’t you help others, I do on a regular basis bro.   Been doing that since my old AW days.

Offline Kweassa

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #80 on: October 09, 2003, 01:56:12 AM »
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The rights of others who are not as good as you and I are! Too many people that are flying this game are struggling just to get a kill. It doesn't matter if your plane or mine is perked, I seriously doubt that I would ever run out of perk points. But what about the others that are not so fortunate or blessed as we are?


 You aren't automatically entitled a right to everything, not to mention this game's hardly a democracy in anyway.

 This game never started out from a perfect equilibrium of checks and balances and thus, changes will be made in its steps of evolution - we've seen how some planes free, were eventually perked. There were changes, and there will be changes - you gonna challenge every eventual change that even slightly shadows some people's notion of "I wanna do everything I want", as a breach of human rights?

 The only difference is whether the source of the change is from the developers themselves, or if someone else makes a suggestion. If the developers think it's a good idea, they'll make the changes whether or not some people think it is bad. You gonna challenge HTC and threaten to quit, then? Hey, it's your loss.

 You'll need to come up with a better excuse/grounds for saying 'no' to a mere proposition on improving the status of the game for a common good. Especially when it seems you understand not even the least bit of what is said in this thread. There are research materials, some studies, and reasons why it is for the better. Read it, please.

 If you have something to disagree from the specifics of this proposition, then I'd gladly accept a more intelligent conversation with you. At the moment, we're all going around in circles with this metaphysical bullshi* on "rights".


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While the 38 is my main ride, it's not the only thing I fly. On occasion I do fly the P-51D, but there is no challenge to flying it. When I am in a TnB mood I will fly early model planes. But the 38 is my main ride, and having to pay for it just because it's a late war plane is just plain stupid.


 What's plain stupid, is that the reasons why late-war planes are perk material, are already given. Which you either did not read, or dismissed it without a logical procedure of thinking.


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Yeah they already have planes with high perks, and for a good reason. Perks are based on how much the plane type upsets the balance of the game play.


 The point is, (1) how much game balance is disrupted, (2) by which planes, (3) to which degree, (4) for what reason.  You think all planes, which are not currently perked, are same in everything to the same degree?


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If you really want to do something useful, then train people to fly those early warplanes so they can deal with the late war planes. An early warplane in the right hands is every bit as deadly if not deadlier then the average pilot in a late warplane. Many times I have seen people flying early model planes and just kicking behinds on late war planes.


 You're talking of something irrelevant. Not to mention, making a typical assumption of how faults derived from the system, should always be fixed by the individual, instead of touching the system itself.

 Also, you're contradicting yourself, as you seemed to be so concerned about those "not so fortunate or blessed as we are" when starting off.. and now, suddenly your closing the statement hangs about how we should train everyone into a pilot good enough to be deadly in early war planes?

 Why, if that's useful, I'd reckon perking the late war planes to balance the arena out, and then training pilots to become skilled enough to earn the incredibly high, woppin' THREE perk points when they want to fly those planes, would be even more useful. No?

 Why not? If we do that, we:

1) motivate people to learn to fly better, to get more chances to fly their favorite planes, without having to pay punitive costs to fly them...

2) place a check upon the late war monster planes which people flock to for their versatility, which usually makes a stale and dull environment..

3) place a heavier check upon people who choose late-war fighters for the sole purpose of kamikazeing themselves, instead of learning to bomb and rocket, strafe

4) promote the use of free planes, the '43~'44 fighters with a wider variety but smaller performance margin, than compared to '44~'45 planes with smaller variety and wider performance margin

5) promote the use of dedicated ground attack planes, as the late-war fighter-bombers with piles of ordnance, would be perked lightly.

 .....

 Read the thread, sahib. And then come up to me for a counter-punch.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2003, 02:02:01 AM by Kweassa »

Offline muckmaw

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #81 on: October 09, 2003, 07:21:44 AM »
What game in the world do you sign into and instantly have the ability to use every weapon in the game?

Every other game I've ever played used a carrot and stick approach.

You wanted to reach the next level to get to do this..

You wanted to get more Strength points so you could use this weapon..

You wanted to explore the maze until you found the BFG 2000....

You had goals, and you did all you could to achieve them.

I'm for Kweassa's idea. Actually, I'm more for a tougher perk cost, but kweassas idea is more acceptable for the masses.

Please ask yourself this and be honest....

WOULD IT BE SO TERRIBLE TO TRY THIS IDEA FOR 1 TOUR IN THE MA?

Offline MRPLUTO

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #82 on: October 09, 2003, 08:10:51 AM »
I vote "Yes".

MRPLUTO VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~ MAG-33

Offline Vermillion

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #83 on: October 09, 2003, 12:03:18 PM »
Heed the old saying... "be careful what you wish for"

Personally I vote no, because I know where this path leads too.

The rolling plane set (similar concept of "plane variety", just a different mechanism) in Warbirds started this exact way.  It sounds reasonable and fun. Hey... what the heck lets try it.

It soon leads to more and more division in the player base, and less and less choice for the player.

The end result in Warbirds? The Axis versus Allied rolling planeset.  Warbirds maybe 30 or 40 players on a weekend "primetime", Aces High 300 or 400 players.

The numbers tell the tale. period.

Offline Kweassa

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2003, 02:28:51 PM »
I am especially aware of that, Verm.

 The general approach may sound simular to a RPS system, but frankly, there's a large difference in that the planes are still accessible, and quite easily, in the suggested NPA.

 I think there's a big problem in player mentality of AH, that people automatically respond to any type of secondary gameplay devices of limitation/augmentation/alteration/influence/encouragment , as "taking away choices". Obviously, "limiting choices", "taking away choices", and "encouraging choices" are not the same thing. If we put 50~70 perks on a plane that saw regular service in WW2(Spit14, F4U-4, Tempest..), that's clearly limiting choices. If we pull a plane out of the accessible plane set, that's taking away choices.

 But 3 points for late war planes, 4~5 for the slightly better ones, such as the D-9. G-10 and the La-7? That's to encourage choices of a wider variety, with a little motivation in survival and collecting perks which can be spent regularly without heavy burden(unlike having to spend 50~200 a time..). Not to mention the multi-objective it holds.

 The perk system in general, is fundamentally different from the RPS. I didn't come up with the system, HTC did. My suggestion is but a slight alteration of the original.

Offline ~Pyroman~

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2003, 03:02:08 PM »
I'm with Cage on this one.

Kwassena I don't want to get flamed for voicing my opinion, but for the newer guys I don't think the perk idea is the way to go.  I say this for the same reason Cage has.

Kwassena I respect your "opinion" and you are more then entitled that, but "I" don't think it's cool you're trying to make everyone "have" your opinion.

You both have raised a good arguement.  In "my" opinion some late war planes could be perked, but not "all" of them.  The PJ doesn't need to be perked in my opinion.  It's not superior to the early war planes if you ask me.  That's if they have the right pilot.

Guys we all play this game because we love it, for our own reasons.  Don't knock another player because they don't have the same view as you.  It's immature, inconsiderate, and just plane irresponsible.

I'm not flaming here, it's just the 3 of us fly for the same country and we should be taking our frustrations out on the bish and knights ;).

:)

Offline qts

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2003, 02:31:50 PM »
And now for the other side of the coin.

I've been flying for quite some time, but I still suck big time. I tend to fly the 205, Seafire, Typhoon, Spit V (sometimes 9), TBM, and whatever bomber takes my fancy. I die a lot. This does not faze me because I'm having fun. I'm a somewhat casual, rather than truly serious player.

I don't often fly the Spit 9 as I get very few perks with it.

To me, one perk is quite a lot.

I build up some perks over time - I've got several hundred in each category - and every so often I'll take up a perk plane, and like as not, I'll get shot down.

I'm not sure that the perk values are that amiss with the current scoring system. What I do think is amiss is the way perks are given. We've all seen the suicide dweebs. I'd suggest that there needs to be a real incentive for returning to base, especially for the newbie. Give a perk point - or more - per plane for returning to base after combat (defined as being pinged at least once, unmanned flak not counting) even if you score no kills. Give a large bonus for landing more than one kill perhaps a cumulative bonus, (1 for 1 kill, 1+2=3 for 2 kills, 1+2+3=6 for 3 kills etc), with some targets (e.g. CV) counting double or more. Drop the perk value for actually scoring the kill. Now there is a big incentive for actually landing your kills.

Offline Boozer

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #87 on: October 14, 2003, 06:39:22 AM »
I agree with the naysayers, all this idea would do is remove the chance to fly half the planeset unless you can maintain over a 2:1 k/d.
 
  Given that a majority of players struggle to get a 1:1 k/d, I see a lot of folks giving up for being unable to compete with the core of veteran players that can always fly anything they want against their poor Spitfire (even high perk planes are reduced in this plan for benefit of us vets and tends to make the whole plan look like a vet agenda).

  Someone do the actual math for proof, but only getting only 2 kills landed for each death in a late war plane (say 2-2.5 perks earned for 3-5 perks cost) will drain the perk pool of the average players. It's not just the brand new guy that suffers, but most average guys too. But the system is painless for 4:1 k/d vets.

  The way to change voluntary plane use without penalizing average players is to greatly skew ENY's of early vs late planes.

EDIT: Actually ENY  mods might make Kweassa's plan useable... Kweassa, figure out an even return for a 1:1 k/d pilot for ENY levels that won't limit them from flying late war to go along with your perk costs. This could be the answer for the auger jabos, too expensive to waste 4 in a row, but  not denied if flying normally.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2003, 07:17:37 AM by Boozer »

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #88 on: January 08, 2004, 08:48:36 AM »
Personally I think it's a great idea - trawled through two pages of posts but never saw anything from HTC - what do they think?

Offline Sway

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For HTC: My suggestion for a new perk list('43~early '44 MA environment)
« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2004, 09:03:17 AM »
Leave me with a new sucky p38 then, so I don't feel like a dweeb flying a perked one. :D