Author Topic: PERK the BIG FOUR this tour!!! (Read 2815 times)

SlapShot · « **Reply #90 on:** June 25, 2003, 10:16:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKWeav
The Chog got more then just perked. It had a bunch of weight added as well. If it still handled as well as it used to, you would see more of them despite the paltry perk cost.

Yet the La7 which outperforms the premodified Chog in every catagory except gun package is unperked. Go figure.

Weight was not added to neuter or pork the C-Hog, it was added to correct the modeled weight.

Are you suggesting that HT add weight to plane models to pork them to the point that they are on even ground with other planes ?

muckmaw · « **Reply #91 on:** June 25, 2003, 10:54:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
Weight was not added to neuter or pork the C-Hog, it was added to correct the modeled weight.

Are you suggesting that HT add weight to plane models to pork them to the point that they are on even ground with other planes ?

I'm suggesting that some planes be perked to add diversity to the arena. If the Flight Model is correct on an aicraft, don't change it, but use perks to put planes on even ground. At the very least, diversify the arena.

The Chog was a monster, and was therefore perked. Rightfully so. It just so happens, the flight model was wrong as well. Is the plane useless now? Of course not. It's still a great plane but it does not permeate the arena like it once did...that job belongs to the "Big 4".

SlapShot · « **Reply #92 on:** June 25, 2003, 12:21:34 PM »

Muck ... That was intended for AKWeav. From what I have read, the weight was added to the C-Hog because they modeled it too light ... not to neuter it. If HTC were to start porking the models to balance, then this game goes down the crapper.

Perk planes for balance ... I am on the fence leaning towards "perking".

frank3 · « **Reply #93 on:** June 25, 2003, 12:24:22 PM »

to much text!! aaaarrrghhh!!!!

muckmaw · « **Reply #94 on:** June 25, 2003, 12:37:31 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
Muck ... That was intended for AKWeav. From what I have read, the weight was added to the C-Hog because they modeled it too light ... not to neuter it. If HTC were to start porking the models to balance, then this game goes down the crapper.

Perk planes for balance ... I am on the fence leaning towards "perking".

Yes, I knowm but I thought I would share my thoughts so you could start a "perk Mucks bombs" thread.

PERK SLAPSHOT'S LA-7!!!:D

SlapShot · « **Reply #95 on:** June 25, 2003, 01:24:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by muckmaw
Yes, I knowm but I thought I would share my thoughts so you could start a "perk Mucks bombs" thread.

PERK SLAPSHOT'S LA-7!!!:D

Muck ... I have over 5000 perk points, and I have taken a strong liking to the Spit V so perking those planes would not bother me at all.

In other posts, you have introduced the "Carrot" theme. You "must earn your ride", "step up to the challenge".

Why can pilots like Drex, Lev, Mathman, Rude, Toad, Shane, etc ..., who fly these early warbirds, be so damn successful ? ... while scores of other piss and moan. The "Carrot" / challenge for me is to try, thru hard work and getting my bellybutton kicked, aquire the abilities of these guys.

Ya know, you don't really die here ... ya get your bellybutton handed to ya, ya think about what happened and what ya did wrong, ya up another plane and try it again. With persistence, patience, and evaluation, you will eventually get it right.

People are so afraid to die in this game ... like a "plague of huberts" will be cast upon your house if you die. I don't like to be killed as much as the next guy, but I do not lose any sleep over it, I don't destroy keyboards over it, I don't yell at my wife and kids over it, and I don't get nasty with the guy who killed me. I just up another plane and do it all over again ... hopefully better.

I started in the martial arts about 15 years ago, and when I joined the dojo, my goal was to obtain a black belt and to kick my master's ass. Well after many many bruises, dislocated fingers, broken ribs, mild concusion, and many other scrapes, I got my black belt and finally kicked my instructors bellybutton in a tournament. He and I are the best of friends (I married his sister !!!).

I am planning on some day, giving these guys a good fight and maybe kick their bellybutton a few times. Thats my "Carrot".

Perk away ...

AKWeav · « **Reply #96 on:** June 25, 2003, 05:37:32 PM »

Quote

Are you suggesting that HT add weight to plane models to pork them to the point that they are on even ground with other planes ?

You're reading way to much into my statement. I never said anything about why the weight was added, only the result of that added weight, which is the plane is now virtually unused, yet it maintains a perk cost. The La 7 otoh, surpasses the Chog in almost all performance catagories, and is free to all.

icemaw · « **Reply #97 on:** June 25, 2003, 06:06:20 PM »

Damn slappy you have 5000 perkies. You have come a long way its been a long time since we dueled. Consider yourself called out.

Its time to see if you can snatch the pebble out of my hand grass hopper.

Karnak · « **Reply #98 on:** June 25, 2003, 08:35:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKWeav
You're reading way to much into my statement. I never said anything about why the weight was added, only the result of that added weight, which is the plane is now virtually unused, yet it maintains a perk cost. The La 7 otoh, surpasses the Chog in almost all performance catagories, and is free to all.

I call BS on this.

The F4U-1C has 7750 kills and has been killed 2806 times.

The F4U-1C is still used a lot, and that is despite the base 10 point perk cost. Remove that perk cost and the F4U-1C'll most probably shoot mack up to the #1 spot within a single Tour.

The La-7 also does not surpass the F4U-1C in almost all performance categories.

Speed: LA-7
Roll: F4U-1C
Turn: La-7
Acceleration: La-7
Low Alt Perf: La-7
High Alt Perf: F4U-1C
Firepower: F4U-1C
Ammo Endurance: F4U-1C
Ordinance: F4U-1C
CV Capable: F4U-1C
Durability: ?
Fuel Range: ? (Should be F4U-1C, but there are modeling issues with the La-7 here)

Clearly, as a do everything plane (which seems to be what peopel prefer, the F4U-1C far, far outdoes the La-7.

As to "virtually unused", compare the F4U-1C with some other good, potent and free aircraft and you can see that it is far from unused despite its perk price:

The F4U-1C has 7750 kills and has been killed 2806 times.
The A6M5b has 7698 kills and has been killed 8464 times.
The P-47-D30 has 6107 kills and has been killed 7659 times.
The Bf 110G-2 has 5642 kills and has been killed 7641 times.
The Hurricane IIC has 5320 kills and has been killed 3976 times.
The Yak-9U has 5029 kills and has been killed 4842 times.
The Fw 190A-5 has 4916 kills and has been killed 3155 times.
The La-5FN has 4091 kills and has been killed 3334 times.
The C.205 has 3876 kills and has been killed 3468 times.
The Mosquito Mk VI has 2491 kills and has been killed 2946 times.
The F4U-1 has 2335 kills and has been killed 2214 times.

I submit that the F4U-1C is anything but virtually unused. This is what virtually unused looks like:

The Spitfire Mk I has 458 kills and has been killed 1962 times
The C.202 has 400 kills and has been killed 802 times.
The Bf 110C-4b has 314 kills and has been killed 721 times.
The Hurricane Mk I has 238 kills and has been killed 914 times.
The Hurricane IID has 215 kills and has been killed 825 times.
The Bf 109E-4 has 173 kills and has been killed 416 times.
The P-40B has 147 kills and has been killed 493 times.

Calling the F4U-1C unused is balderdash.

Kweassa · « **Reply #99 on:** June 25, 2003, 09:01:07 PM »

Karnak's right.

The current tendency of fighter usage began since Tour29 - with the "Big Four + 1"(La7,P51D,Spit9,N1K2J + Typh), five planes being in the top from that tour till this day.

The F4U-1C usage, since that point, has remained almost constant between 1.6~2%.

It is because the seven most used planes(Big four+1, Fw190D-9, SpitV) make up about half of all the planes you see in the MA(about 50% from since Tour30), that the 1~2% feels like "unused".

However, anything between 1~2% in usage is practically average in usage - no way you can consider it "unused". Get rid of the seven planes in analysis, and consider only the other "competitve" planes, and the F4U-1C is on par with them, despite the perks and added weight.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #100 on:** June 26, 2003, 01:44:00 AM »

Kweassa, you should consider deaths instead of kills as MA usage indicator. You can kill more than one enemy in a sortie, but you can die only once.

Karnak · « **Reply #101 on:** June 26, 2003, 02:43:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Kweassa, you should consider deaths instead of kills as MA usage indicator. You can kill more than one enemy in a sortie, but you can die only once.

Using deaths makes the HUGE assumption that an equal percentage of take offs in, say, the F4U-1C and C.202, end in successful landings.

Using kills is a far better way to gauge the impact of a given aircraft on the MA.

muckmaw · « **Reply #102 on:** June 26, 2003, 10:35:25 AM »

I really liked Kweassa's idea about a floating perk rate based on A/C usage.

Keep in mind, I only have 200 fighter perks, so I'm not talking from an Ivory Tower here. I'd just like to see more diversity in the arena, and more people trying to survive missions.

What's the difference, anyway.

Does HT actually read this board, and grab ideas from it?

Nothing's going to change. At least, not until after AH2.

SlapShot · « **Reply #103 on:** June 26, 2003, 01:20:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKWeav
You're reading way to much into my statement. I never said anything about why the weight was added, only the result of that added weight, which is the plane is now virtually unused, yet it maintains a perk cost.

Exactly ... and that is why I did. Mentioning the adding of weight without explanation, in the context of your statement, would leave some to believe that the plane was perked because of usuage and HTC porked the weight to further balance the plane.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #104 on:** June 26, 2003, 01:25:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Using kills is a far better way to gauge the impact of a given aircraft on the MA.

Kills may be an indicator of impact, but deaths is a much more clear indicator of overusage. Personally, I'm not concerned about the success of a particular plane killing other planes, that is, its K/D ratio. I'm much more concerned about the overusage of planes, independently of their respective K/D ratios.