Author Topic: I guess the IL2 developers never saw this.... (Read 2370 times)

Yeager · « **Reply #30 on:** June 10, 2003, 11:40:11 AM »

And if that muzzle flash of the 37mm in the photo isn't helacious then I don't know what is
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The muzzle flash from a NAVY 16-INCH Cannon is Helacious.

Hope this helps.

Suave · « **Reply #31 on:** June 10, 2003, 11:48:37 AM »

Who flies battleships around these days ?

Yeager · « **Reply #32 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:03:43 PM »

Who flies battleships around these days ?
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Ok, wonderful observation. Lets further this subject by discussing how AH treats the muzzle flash from the tank cannons both 75mm and 88mm, the 5-Inch Navy cannon and the larger cannon on the cruisers (what size are they? 12-Inch?). How would people in the game say those visual representations of muzzle flash stacked up against the historical record, say like unaltered photographs and more preferrably, film?

In my estimation AH underplays those visual representations by a rather wide margin. Perhaps one could extrapolate that by further deducing that the muzzle flash from smaller caliber weapons are underplayed visually as well.

And again, there are a plethora of photographs and motion film, black and white as well as colour, that show automatic arms firing at night (as well as day) and I submit that the photo in the starting post is a singular poor represenation on the subject and chosen obviously on the bias that it supported the posters contention that IL2 is flawed in its representation of muzzle flash, which it is, but I would submit that in this instance, 30% too much is better than 30% too little.

Russian · « **Reply #33 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:10:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
What on earth are you talking about? Its plainly overdone and people here who have fired 50 Caliber MG and 20mm cannon in REAL LIFE military service at night can testify to that. Why on earth are you so defensive?

Calm down...

I'm in military, I have fired weapons at night. I have seen multiple videos of different weapons being fired at night. I speak of my experience. Using one flakey looking photos is very poor argument stand point.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #34 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:19:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Russian
I'm in military, I have fired weapons at night. I have seen multiple videos of different weapons being fired at night. I speak of my experience. Using one flakey looking photos is very poor argument stand point.

Rumor has it you'd soak Olegs socks in your mouth to clean them if given the chance...so I don't think your opinion weighs in as much as your butt kissing.

Mini D · « **Reply #35 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:20:59 PM »

The photo is fake or heavily doctored.

In that situation the guns would be the only light source. That means that anything behind that light source would be shadowed or barely illuminated, but the whole plane is illuminated despite that fact.
The shadow on the pilots face clearly indicates a powerfull light source coming from in front of the aircraft
Did P-39 guns fire simultaneously? 4 .50s and the 37mm? Because that picture had to be taken at faster than a 1/60th speed in order to maintain clarity and I don't know of alot of single barrel guns capable of 3600 round per minute (the amount of time necessary for two rounds to get into the picture).
There should be no stars visible given the required shudder speed and the amount of high intensity light present.

Il-2's muzzle flashes are greatly overexagerated (I think 30% is a modest estimate). This has been pointed out by pilots that have fired the weapons as well as individuals that have experience firing very similar weapons. That is enough to show that Oleg's stance on the situation is either ego based or he doesn't really care enough to fix it.

No need to go making things up.

MiniD

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #36 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:23:04 PM »

How bout this Russain, your buddy Oleg plainly admits the muzzle flashes as modeled are done to represent them only as he thinks they are at NIGHT time.

So by definition the use of those identical graphics for DAYTIME is innaccurate.

And that settles the argument, right there since you place so much faith in Oleg and even he admits they are inaccurate for daylight conditions.

Further the fact is that he indignantly refuses to chenge them, which is foolosh since so many people hate them.

So there, you loose this argument base on your inflexibility.

Neener neener nenner.

( <------ That was a joke - dont get even more mad)

Ripsnort · « **Reply #37 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:31:16 PM »

MiniD, the photo looks very much like a photo of a P38 doing a static night firing test in Flight Journal not too long ago...so I don't think the actual flash portion of the photo is doctored, unless the P38 photo may have also been doctored for a magazine subscription.

Russian · « **Reply #38 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:34:01 PM »

I know that during day time muzzle flash is wrong in IL2. My argument was during 1900-0700 IL2FB simulates muzzle flashes better and more realistic then any other simulations. Just as I wrote in last topic about this, Oleg didn’t want to do dynamic muzzle flashes. It would take to long time so he had to compromise between night and day. Neener neener nenner

Yeager · « **Reply #39 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:34:40 PM »

Although GRUN is obviously trolling for a mouth to piss in he inadvertantly brings up a good subject. AH models muzzle flash rather weakly

Mini D · « **Reply #40 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:35:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
MiniD, the photo looks very much like a photo of a P38 doing a static night firing test in Flight Journal not too long ago...so I don't think the actual flash portion of the photo is doctored, unless the P38 photo may have also been doctored for a magazine subscription.

It was. The plane was not in motion at the time of firing and the stars were added. Who did it I don't know... but its clearly not an indication of what cannons look like when fired at night, unless you count having a spotlight shining on the aircraft as "realisitic".

MiniD

Wlfgng · « **Reply #41 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:37:42 PM »

Quote

I know that during day time muzzle flash is wrong in IL2. My argument was during 1900-0700 IL2FB simulates muzzle flashes better and more realistic then any other simulations. Just as I wrote in last topic about this, Oleg didn’t want to do dynamic muzzle flashes. It would take to long time so he had to compromise between night and day. Neener neener nenner

sorry but that's BS IMO.
I've fired quite a few large caliber weapons in my life, and Oleg's Hollywood-like attempt isn't even close to RL. Fire a 20mm or 50mm during even dusk and it doesn't look like it does in IL2. Why wouldn't a game developer choose something like twilight or dusk if they are going to 'flat model' muzzle flashes instead of midnight on a moonless night?
The ONLY time that IL2 seems close to RL with muzzle flashes is midnight.. all else is unbelievable and makes an otherwise excellent Simulation seem cheesy.

Suave · « **Reply #42 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:42:46 PM »

The muzzle flashes from the naval guns in AH are huge. I don't consider the photo doctored just because somebody illuminated the plane with a spot light . Can somebody post that photo of the b25 doing a night fire ?

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #43 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:47:05 PM »

Yeager · « **Reply #44 on:** June 10, 2003, 12:53:41 PM »

Suave, "helacious" and "huge" obviosuly mean two completely different things to you and I. Let us talk about the visual impact of large explosive shells upon the terrain in AH.....you know, those little "plops" that happen all around the airfields under naval barrage.

I wouldnt call the photo "doctored" in the sense that someone edited the muzzle flashes. What I would say is that someone edited the photo to bring clarity to the underside leading edges of the wings/fuselage and that the photo is a singular piss poor representation of muzzle flash.