Where Fur and Strat Collide...

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Toad
No matter how "redikulolous" I may be or may become, I'll never hold a candle to you.

BTW, the "Tank Furball Arena Within An Arena" is NB's vision. I'd have never thought of an Aircraft Furball Arena Within An Arena without his trailblazing vision. So, all credit is really due NB.

ROFL! Gotta love ole Bufo Marinus.

[beemer]

Beetle why don't you try some diversity in your posts. The Mr. Toad thing is dumb and boring and you keep repeating yourself over and over.

You have some good points but they are integrated with your old banter that you somehow think is amusing to all and makes you a BBS hero.

[beet1e]

OK Beemer...  it was late, I was tired, and the Chilean Merlot had been flowing... In future, I shall try to make my posts the way you want them. Geez, you guys want us all to fly your way, now you want us all to POST your way. I abide by the BBS rules (written and unwritten) with regard to issues like profanity, decency and courtesy. I avoid making personal insults.  Too bad if this isn't good enough for you. Other than that, I am unaware of rules governing the content of posts, except that they should be on topic in the Discussion forum. No harm in having a bit of fun with Mr. Toad. He has plenty of fun at my expense - or didn't you notice? No, of course you didn't.

Back on topic: As I understand it, it takes months of work to come up with Aces High maps. It's no easy matter to just add an area for furballers, build a 50,000' wall around it, and hope to integrate that into the existing system of map resets. Those changes would be needed not just to the Trinity map, but to all other maps as well. Months of work for someone.

But the DA is already there, has none of the strat nonsense that is so despised by the furballers, and could be used immediately, without gameplay changes and without map changes. Better still, if the furballers were to migrate there, we strat guys would no longer face the daily calls to "perk this" or "harden that" or "nudge the other". I see those proposals as mandates to play a certain way. The furballers want the HQ radar building to be "hardened" because thay don't like the fact that it can be destroyed by bombs. But the whole point of a bomb is to destroy an object on the surface. If that is no longer an option, either because bombs have been perked out of reach or because the bombs have insufficient effect, the buffs/jabos will simply give up, which is what the furballers really want. The furballers will have succeeded in modifying gameplay, and forcing the would be jabos/buffs to fly the furballers' way. Purple sig text applies.

Another call I'm half expecting the furballers to make is for Trinity tank town V-bases to be converted to airfields. But then we'd have P47s taking off from there (is it 15K?) to go and beat up other areas of the map.

[sax]

Beetle..............I think all the so called furballers are asking for is as lazs says "parity" .
Nothing spoils a good fite like having the fuel porked or a CV sunk by kamikaze game play .  Imagine if your fun<<>>were spoiled by one suicide furballer.
This especially becomes relevent on bigger maps when the only close fite may be a CV or 2 fields out of  100 that are in close proximity provide the only action on a map.
Strat can and does dictate game play for 80% of the MA. To say if you don't like it go elsewhere only fuels a fire that keeps posts like this one burning on and on.

As far as the map makers and thier hard work

The Toads and  lazs and NoPoop's of AH maybe could or couldn't make a map as everyone suggests , but I'd be willing to bet that the same applys to the strat guys who advocate as loud as anyone that the maps are just fine asis.

Oh yea . if you don't agree with any thing I'm saying......

beetlejuice-----beetlejuice-------beetlejuice

[lazs2]

curly.. moving the fields closer is what has hapened to infinity.  It could happent to a lot of fields.  It would help gameplay.

When I suggessted the 163 be brought to AH it was said that it was part of my diobolical super secret plat to end strat as we know it.   why, if we had the 163 then 1 person could destroy the hard work of...of..of well, 1 person who was out to destroy the game for dozens or more people with his dumb HQ raid.

parity variety and action.. say what you will but if you lose those things you will lose players... I think even the nerdiest strat guy knows that as the new players develop some skill they are gonna get bored with the steamroller... for sure HTC can see it coming.   We better get some choice going before then.   Not enough stamp collectors to keep the doors open if a new sim starts up that offers something for more people.

beetle.. generations... that was a great concept ruined.... generations was an alternative to RPS "date of introduction"   it lumped planes of all types together based on performance.   It fell down because they made the huge goof of then making it "allied against axis"   they destroyed all the parity they had worked so haard for in one fell swoop.   Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

bbg... like I said... bout four guys worth a damn... you will probly lose em.
lazs

[Rude]

Beetle....

Can you not get the simple fact that no one is asking you to alter your style of play....by all means, do what you want to do.

Some would just like to have some different options which allow access to quicker fights, more of them and finally, allowing the use of early war planes to become more feasable.

A seperate early war arena is a bad idea imo...the community needs coherence....simply bring the fields closer together on these large maps and much would be added for those who do not relish the participation in the strat thingie.

The only other change I would like to see is that of the fuel porking....strat guys need to be able to pork enemy resources, but it should take more than one plane to do so.

Why would you have a problem with that?

[AKcurly]

I rarely fly the combat theater simply because it takes too long to find a fight and when I do find one, it's invariably 3 to 1.  I always look at the room counter prior to logging into the MA and the CT will be anywhere from 0 to 50.  I don't know what they average.

I can't think of the CT as a success because they try so hard to get MA guys in the CT.    The point of the CT is the correct airplane mix.  You don't see spits fighting spits.

I think the MA has a certain inertia ... guys are used to going there.  Who knows, if the MA server went down for 3 days and we were all forced to go to the CT, it's possible that most of us would never fly the MA again.

Let's suppose, just for the sake of an argument, that HTC created a FA (furball arena), not a "arena within a arena", but an arena devoted to the type of game play some of you want.

How many guys would go there?  I'll bet the number would be surprisingly low - maybe 30 or 40.  But, a FA would be a resounding success with 40 airplanes, right?

Why aren't you guys agitating to create a FA instead of creating pressure to change the MA?  It seems to me the "arena within an arena" carries a significant risk of making everyone very unhappy.

curly

[lazs2]

curly... if you had an early war area within the arena it could not possibly make anyone unhappy... you could simply ignore it if you weren't interested.   just like tank town.

It would not have any effect on the rest of the arena... you could still fly early war planes from the rest of the arena... all features and planes would be enabled in the entire arena except the small part that would be early war planes only soo....

what do you see as a potential problem with it?   People who wanted to furball early war planes for a sortie now and then could click on a early war field and do it... one more click and they are back in the old main.  Maybe there would never be more than 50-100 guys there at one time but.... there would probly be a core of about 40 and... best of all... there would allways be 25-50 or more guys there who just wanted to fly a few "hair on fire sorties" and then go back to the extremely gratifying and complex strat and high alt foxhole, steamroller of the normal MA..

people could switch seamlessly and still keep abreast of what was going on with the rest of the community.
lazs

[nopoop]

Originally posted by AKcurly
Why aren't you guys agitating to create a FA instead of creating pressure to change the MA ?

The game over the hill has about 12 arenas that divides the current census over there of fifty quite well.

They have an arena for just about every combination you want. There all empty.

The MA is the sandbox. The front door. Changes to field distances along with addressing fuel and CV issues does little in the overall scheme of things except maybe increase some choices.

I don't want a seperate arena or an arena within one for that matter.

Bump some fields closer as has been done on trinity, hash out an equatable solution to fuel porkage and suicide dweebery and play.

It ain't a make or break proposition, have a great time here. Somewhere, somehow discussion is frowned upon.

And through this whole thread in all these posts, I haven't come across ONE logical reason posted by anyone why field locations, and fuel porkage changes would not improve the game.

Not one.

Whole lot of Beet1e nonsense, but he never gives a reason, other than "Skuzzy says so" or we must "adapt"

If there was just one reason, we could discuss it, I'm still waiting for the other sides position on why it would hurt the game instead of help it.

You'd think with a couple of hundred replies someone would have a counterpoint beside "Go to the DA" "Make your own map".

If the counterpoint is there, it must be a mother to find..

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by lazs2

what do you see as a potential problem with it?  

If Hitech altered his game engine so that fields could be designated "uncapturable" and therefore not affect the outcome of the war, I guess it could work.

But, if the fields can be captured, then it will surely happen.  And when it does happen, the furball guys won't have a place to fight.  Can you spell unhappy?

I can already see the private messages flowing back and forth:

Lazs (private): curly, the maws are trying to sneak A14 (part of the furball area.)

I was in the MA the other evening when you guys had a nice furball going (cv approaching a base.)  Inevitably, the CV got too close to the field and a strat guy (worried about field capture) took the CV out.

One of the furballers said (words to the effect): "You just had to kill the CV, didn't you?  Do you realize that you just ruined the fun for 30 guys?"  And then he logged in disgust.

Lazs, why should we set a situation up where it's 100% guaranteed that you will have giantic squabbles within one country over whether a field should be captured?

Lazs, once on NDISLEs, the bish were one field short of winning the war.  I believe the Knights were losing - they had 1 CV and 1 airfield left.

So, I upped a buff to kill the CV.  One of my bish country mates immediately tried to talk me out of sinking the CV.  He wanted to furball.  Well, from my point of view, he made a valid request - I was about to interfere with his game play.  From my point of view, the CV had to be killed.

I think situations like that are detrimental to gameplay.

curly

[lazs2]

curly.. you have not been paying attention.   If there were an area within the arena for early war planes then they would have SEPERATE resets.   There would allways be a place for everyone.

A fighter arena like tank town could be wiped out and, given the nature of the attention starve, probly would be some of the time but... it would be better than nothing.  I have never advocated it but wouldn't be oppossed to it.   I think that whole squads working to ruin the fun of the area would just point out what d##k heads they  were tho... the obvious would be..... obvious.
lazs

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by lazs2
curly.. you have not been paying attention.   If there were an area within the arena for early war planes then they would have SEPERATE resets.   There would allways be a place for everyone.

Yes I have, Lazs.  Didn't you see my qualification : It would probably work if Hitech alters his game engine?

A fighter arena like tank town could be wiped out and, given the nature of the attention starve, probly would be some of the time but... it would be better than nothing.  I have never advocated it but wouldn't be oppossed to it.   I think that whole squads working to ruin the fun of the area would just point out what d##k heads they  were tho... the obvious would be..... obvious.
lazs

Lazs, read the paragraph you just wrote.  If I participate in AH the way I want to participate, then I'm an attention starved d##k head.  

When I login to Aces High, my agenda isn't to ruin your fun.  My agenda is to capture every base I can and kill any plane/gv that opposes me.

I'll have to admit tho, folks calling me an attention starved d##k head might give me a new agenda.  And that's exactly why the "arena within an arena" concept won't work.

curly

[AKIron]

A "fighter town" area in the MA is an old idea going back many years. We even discussed dedicating an area for this when we made the desert map. I can't remember why we didn't, most likely it was because hitech didn't want it, could be wrong though. If hitech doesn't want uncaptureable fields I think you're going to need a lot stronger argument to change his mind.

[beet1e]

Oh no, I'm the target of a 13th AS BBS gangbang!!

Sax, Beet1ejuice does not apply because actually I do agree with some of what you say, especially the part about the CV kamikaze dweebs. I may have porked fuel, but have never suicided to achieve it. The layout of the map is open to debate. I see nothing wrong with having the gentlemen you mentioned developing a new map with closer fields, and for this map to enter the weekly cycle in much the same way that the AK guys developed the Pizza.

Rude, see the above. I'm indifferent to field spacing. But I don't think you've read all I had to say, in particular what happened after terrain rollover yesterday. Things had been good on Trinity, but as soon as Mindano came up, the Bish began their TYPH missuns. Suiciding and reuppage become so much more feasible when the fields are closer together, as on the children's maps. That's the problem I have with fields being moved closer together. But much worse are these player initiatives to harden targets etc. You say that it should need more than one plane to take out the fuel. Why should it? Can you give a better reason other than "because that's the way you'd like it"? Still seems to me that the furballers won't be satisfied until the teeth and claws of the buffs and jabos have been drawn, and the only thing left to do is to furball - or to quit. Purple sig text applies.

Lazs, Generations in WB was never given the chance it deserved. It was mothballed after only one tour, and that was not a fair shake.

As for having an early war area within an arena, with an independent reset, and moving fields around as if they were furniture, I don't think some of the guys suggesting these changes have ever done any programming. I have never done any game programming, but I do know that what might seem like a minor change to some could involve a major system rewrite. Map development is a huge enterprise, and as HTC has already told us, the game is not set up to allow for subarena reset. To implement that change could be hugely costly in terms of coding effort and testing... and at the end of the day, people will still be whining about the outcome. So I predict that HTC will do the most sensible thing of all: Nothing.

Nopoop, I have given reasons - and do so again here. Not my fault if you can't read.

Curly - I have been flying in the CT in the past month. And I would have flown last week but there was an early war scenario up, and I'm not much of an early war guy. But I will definitely go there this week now that Mindano is up in the MA. I recommend it. The atmosphere is so much more gentlemanly. People each other after a good fight, and there is none of the Ch-1 trash talk - all that "your momma" crap etc. So give it another go. Even on Euro hours, I was finding 3v3 engagements.

[Toad]

Originally posted by beet1e
Oh no, I'm the target of a 13th AS BBS gangbang!!

Gangbang? No. Icon of Squad humor.... maybe.

Originally posted by beet1e
Rude, see the above. I'm indifferent to field spacing. ...Suiciding and reuppage become so much more feasible when the fields are closer together, as on the children's maps. That's the problem I have with fields being moved closer together.

I mean, who can not laugh at those red sentences cohabitating the same paragraph?

And you do it all the time.

But, listen...I DO appreciate it. I get more laughs out of reading your stuff on the BBS than I do from any other part of my day.