school vouchers

[AKIron]

It's not just my state banana. My sister teaches here now but taught in Georgia for several years. I also have a sister-in-law that has taught both here and in California. She got fed up and home schools her son now. My brother-in-law got fed up and teaches in private school now.

Minnesota may be the exception.

[AKIron]

banana, I went to 12 schools in 12 years. I did as little as possible and barely squeaked by. I can't remember a teacher that didn't seem to be bored with their job, well, except maybe a few of the young ones.

Fortunately for me I liked College.

We don't need no education. We don't need no mind control.

[fd ski]

banana ... group hug ?

now if i only wasn't so fricking stubborn

Oh.. and having attended school in connecticut, they are pretty good, teachers and education.
Having attended Community College in Florida for few months...3 words for you.. "OH MY GOD"

As a math tutor i had to explain to a lady what a NEGATIVE NUMBER is. This is in COLLEGE. She wrote down 5-8 = and asked me to explain that. What a world...

[Wanker]

I did as little as possible and barely squeaked by.

I rest my case.

[capt. apathy]

while alot of parents are pretty damn lazy about teaching there kids or even asking about homework, I think there is a much bigger problem.

not only do my kids go to school about 20 days less (and about 1 half day per week), there is about 10 times the amount of BS that has nothing to do with education.

and after all that crap is done they use the rest of the time trying to get a handle on the kids kids who have no intention of learning and don't care what anybody says about it.

you'd hear all kinds of crap about how somehow it's racist, but what we need is a teired class set-up.  so a kid goes into the regular class and if they learn fine, if they want to cause trouble you can drop them into a class with kids who aren't so serious about there work.  if they still don't get it put them in a class with the disceplin problems and if they can't get under countrole after that show them the door for the year.

this way kids who come prepared to learn aren't held back by screw-offs.

another problem is the idea that you constantly have to be worried about everyones self-esteem.  "move them on even though they didn't do the work, wouldn't want them to feel bad about themselves".  what a load of crap, when I was in school it was one of the teachers main jobs to locate the morons and let you know if you where one of em.  you may have felt bad when they jumped all over you but you didn't go home thinking things where fine and knowing nothing about the work.

watching my kids go through for the last 12 years I see a trend also where most of your grade (well over 70%) is based on effort. great the kid tries reall hard, thats great but if he can't add he shouldn't pass math.

there would be so much oposition to doing anything real to fix schools it's hopeless.  you can't change anything without offending someone, and you won't find a more PC group than those running the schools.

vouchers are the only solution I can see that would work.  and I don't see anything wrong or unfair with them either.
so if I send my kid to be educated by someone I feel can do a better job why shouldn't his share of the educational funding go with him.

all it takes as a more realistic way of looking at things.  as it is we see the scool funding available in a district to be the right of the district to spend.  we ought to look at as the money raised for education in a particular distric belongs not to the district but to the students.  they're the ones who are owed an education, and if someone else can do the job better let them.

  I don't see how this adversly effects the districts or kids who choose to stay.  sure they loose the money for that kids share but they also get out of the responsability educate that kid.

how do they loose?  you still have the same $$ per kid to spend get too it,  run things as always, just give me the option to take my kid and his share of my tax dollars and opt out.

[AKIron]

Your case is flawed. I didn't start out disinterested. I think teachers must take some responsibility for keeping young captive audiences interested, don't you?

[Fatty]

No amount of publicity can disguise graduation rates and higher education matriculation rates.

Why, in the ideal Great Society, deny someone the education that someone else has simply because of money?  How republican of you all.

Personally, I'd love to see Exeter, St Paul's and Andover full of inner city voucher holders, but the elitists would never let it go that far.

[midnight Target]

My children used to attend a public school that was so successful almost every other school and district in California sent teachers there to learn how it should be done.

No, it wasn't a rich school, but it was a small one. Point is, public doesn't equal crappy.

[Trell]

I know I am young here im 24

but I think there are some big problems in public schools.

I live in michigan.  Anyone in this state has heard how much oakland school systems has screwed the people.  they spend tons on the admin side that is a compleate waste. giving money to family to do projects.

what happened to the times where goverment and schools got hand me downs.  here it seams that they spend big money on everything.  they spent millions on a adminastrative building. here.


I think the biggest problem with public schools is accountabilty

Maybe my school was different but I have seen a lot of bad teaches.

I had a teacher that showed us how to use a bayonet in class (was using the flag)  is was senile.  I convinced him that he lost all my homework and he gave me an A.

I saw a teacher that pushed a child into a closet because he was not paying attention in class (scared the child half to death).

I had a teacher that went around telling my teachers my confidential IQ test.

I have a lot of bad examples. of teachers out of control

teachers and the rest of the school system needs to be accountable.

byw i had a lot of good teacher too.  there are a lot of teachers  that are very good at their jobs
teachers that did care about the students
but once a bad teacher is there they are there for life.  




btw i was not a great student  i will let everyone know that up front so they can attack me on that right away.


btw any teachers want to tell me how much the average salary of a teacher is.

and i dont mean starting teacher.  someone with 5-10 year exp

[dfl8rms]

banana:

I am not against the teacher and if my post came off that way, I apologize.  My older brother is has a BS Music Teaching and is  in northern MN teaching (he also taught in the LeRoy district for 4 yrs).  What I was carefully trying to drive home is the political wing of NEA is doing much to keep the administrative side of the public school system alive.  When they fight for equality in pay for teachers in the classroom and for more reasonable class size limits I'm all for them.  When the fight against homeschooling I protest loudly.  When the NEA fights against teacher accountability by testing, I protest loudly.  

I'm sure each of us can point to "good" teachers and the teachers who were there to get a pay check and/or because they needed to teach a class or two to be a sports coach and they were hoping their coaching was going to take them to that next level.  In a private school, those teachers who want to make a difference and are characterized by that self sacrifice rise to the top.  The ones who are there for other reasons that to invest in the next generation are "weeded out".

I am thankful for my public education, but for personal faith reasons and for my disagreeing with how the school districts handle moral teaching (as mandated by our Federal and State Government) I choose to not use the public education system.  It is my belief that my wife and I have the primary responsibility to "train up a child".  As such we homeschool and will continue to homeschool.  We not only take this approach for academia, but also for our Christian teaching as well.  We attend corporate worhsip services and partake of the teaching/growth opportunities through the church, but we hold Duet 6:1-10 as a command that we cannot disregard.

Duet. 6:1-9
1 "Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the LORD your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess, 2that you may fear the LORD your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged. 3Therefore hear, O Israel, and be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply greatly as the LORD God of your fathers has promised you--"a land flowing with milk and honey.'[1]
4"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one![2] 5You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6"And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

[fd ski]

Originally posted by AKIron
I think teachers must take some responsibility for keeping young captive audiences interested, don't you?

No. You're getting FREE education, MANDATED BY LAW. This is a blessing, for which many children all over the world would be quite greateful.
Each day student walks into the high school he should remember this, and if nessesary reminded of this.
Teacher's job is to put forth the material. if he can do it well, and keep the captive audience, great. However, nobody ever said that teacher's should also be entertainers.
It's kid's job to pay attention. Not the other way around.

Once again, if you are under impression that with vouchers you will send your kid to fancy private school, you are living in a dream world.
Schools will remain the same. Funding will remain relatively same with exception of budget for advatising and marketing going though the roof.
Those fancy schools you see today where the rich kids go - they will raise tuition by exact ammount that vouchers will cover. If it's 10000$ / year now and you get a voucher for 5000$, well guess what, tuition next year will be 15000$. Rich folks will get vouchers too

You will change the system where emphasis is on eductions into system where emphasis is on PROFIT. Your child will not longer be a pupit. It will be an account recievable.

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by banana
"Most teachers in this country are highly educated and motivated. They are dedicated to their students, and are self-sacrificing to a fault. "

Originally posted by AKIron
That certainly wasn't my experience through 12 years of public school. I have a sister and a brother-in-law that are both teachers and would disagree with you too.

I might agree if you said many but not most.

"Motivated" is matter of opinion, for the most part.

What would you consider "highly educated"?

eskimo

[Fatty]

You really think any of the people paying $10k/year tuition are in a school district that would qualify for vouchers?

Have all of those schools as they are now already turned their pupils into account recievables, or would it only happen once poor kids were allowed to attend?  If it would be nothing but advertising through the roof pushing a sham why is that not the case presently?  There's a lot more to be made through the private sector anyway.

Again, it is because no amount of advertising can fake results.


Is it only the money thing, would you feel better if they were required to admit a certain percentage of vouchers as tuition free?

[Gadfly]

If a kid and his parents desire it, an excellent education can be had at any school, or even without a school.  I educate my children at home, in addition to the moderate education they receive at school.  It is NOT my children's responsibility, before high school, to learn, it is MINE as their parent to make sure they do.  

In high school, the student is responsible for and to themselves to become educated.  If the parents did it right in the first 8 years, the specific school attended is meaningless.  


If you disagree with my opinion, you are too lazy to accept your responsability as a parent, and simply wish to shift the blame to someone else.

[wrag]

Well....

It's not so much the public schools are bad or worse then private schools IMHO.

It's the NEA, and my understanding of their agenda, that gets me goin.

I'm seeing far too many of our young people coming out of the public schools that have never read the preamble to the Bill of Rights!  And far too many don't even know what the Bill of Rights contains, and worse don't seem to care.  The failure to understand that the key to freedom is the self-governing individuals that Adams (I think it was Adams) refereed to seems rampant.

It seems, IMHO, that the NEA is in some ways very happy with the gradual constitutional dumbing down of our young people.

As in Ancient Rome it's starting to look like far too may are satisfied with Circus's and Bread.

And Gadfly...  no offense intended! however, IMHO the ending of your post doesn't SEEM to fit into all situations that exist, and it also SEEMS highly judgmental, and MAYBE even a bit arrogant to make such a claim against any that disagrees with one, unless one is FULLY aware of the individuals situation that one is referring to.

Single parents aren't always able to give their children the time they need.  In some cases 2 parent families in some areas have just as much difficulty.  Some parents, possibly due to a poor education, or poor health, or limited jobs/income available in their area, have to work/struggle very hard just to survive and put food on the table!

But hey, what is in this particular post is only my opinion and doesn't really affect much of anything