Author Topic: FesterMA is Fester FURBALL  (Read 9316 times)

Offline Mini D

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FesterMA is Fester FURBALL
« Reply #75 on: November 19, 2003, 09:19:20 AM »
Lazs, when other things pop up you prioritize what is important and disgard the rest.  You've pretty much made it clear where the game sits.  I can't fault you for that except when you try to come back and pretend you didn't.

And none of this has any bearing on the fact that you continue to voiciferously defend a map you haven't really played.  I was on last night lazs... I saw Beet1e there.  I didn't see you.

If life is that busy, how about giving the assaults a rest too.  Leave it to the guys that are actually playing the game and actually have experience with the map.  I know it's difficult for you not to jump in despite not knowing what you're talking about... but give it a try.  It'll free up even more time for your grandaughter.

MiniD

Offline leitwolf

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FesterMA is Fester FURBALL
« Reply #76 on: November 19, 2003, 03:30:56 PM »
Some simple thoughts from a 'strat challenged' :

You can't play against/with a real person unless you're online. You can't fight against other planes offline. Fighting other planes is what the "furball crowd" wants.
You can, however, destroy hangars, fuel bunkers, vehice hangars and factories offline in exactly the same way you do it online.
Fighting stationary targets is what the "strat crowd" wants.

Question: why don't you "strat guys" play offline? Stupid idea, isn't it?

Of course, nobody wants that - the building battler and the furball dweebs want to play in the MA with people who share their interests.
The furball dweebs couldn't care less for the strat aspects of the MA as long as they don't interfere. The problem is the game balance of the main arena is shifted towards the strat aspect: one group can deny the other group what it wants: Kill fuel and you're successfully interdicting a furball.
In MMOG terms having one player killing the fun for other players is called "griefer" and endless streams of suicide runners to kill strat targets on enemy fields are just that.
This inbalance is also a lot more pronounced since a single guy can kill every fuel depot on an enemy field with a few Typhoon runs (even saving time by augering shortly after his ord is dropped) and thus killing a furball for dozens of people.
FesterMA is one of the few maps where spacing of the airfields makes it a lot more difficult to successfully drain enough fuel to starve a furball to death. This doesn't take anything away from the strat guys (after all, they can still kill everything) but prevents them from taking something away from the furball crowd.
I hope i'm incorrect here but it looks like some of you strat guys have a problem if you can't stop someone else having fun?
veni, vidi, vulchi.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #77 on: November 19, 2003, 05:07:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by leitwolf
Question: why don't you "strat guys" play offline? Stupid idea, isn't it?
Question: why don't you "furball guys" play in the DA? Stupid idea, isn't it?

The strat guys play in the MA because that's where HTC put the strat. It didn't just appear there. It was put there by HTC. They put none in the DA, which is free of strat, free of buffs, free of fuel porkage. Get it? So if you're a furballer, why don't you go there?

Offline Rutilant

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« Reply #78 on: November 19, 2003, 05:19:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by leitwolf

Question: why don't you "strat guys" play offline? Stupid idea, isn't it?


'Cuz there's no one to try and stop ya offline, ya ninny!

Offline Zanth

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Re: FesterMA is Fester FURBALL
« Reply #79 on: November 19, 2003, 05:43:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by artik
  • Buff pilots have to get to extreemy high alt to bomb otherwise they enter big furball and die in few minutes
  • Dive bombers and strike planes - have almost no chance to get to the target without being engaged by other plane - and dropping their ord.
  • [/B]


This is a most excellent map for dive bombing with Ar234's.   Closer fields make RTB and rearm not such a not such a boring proposition.  (I know they forgot the bomb site, but you can make your own with the mouse pointer marking the center of the screen)

Offline leitwolf

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« Reply #80 on: November 19, 2003, 06:46:03 PM »
Quote
The strat guys play in the MA because that's where HTC put the strat. It didn't just appear there. It was put there by HTC. They put none in the DA, which is free of strat, free of buffs, free of fuel porkage. Get it? So if you're a furballer, why don't you go there?

My question was just mild sarcasm. I hope yours is too :)
The MA should have room for everyone hence the name "Main" arena. This includes both strat and furball players but there needs to be a balance between these groups.
And if one player has the ability to kill the fun of many others it isn't balanced anymore - there have been many game adjustments in the past to regain this balance and fester's map is another attempt - in my book a very good one. Can you name things this map took away from strat players? It certainly brought something back for the furballers.
That's a win/win imho :aok
« Last Edit: November 19, 2003, 06:48:18 PM by leitwolf »
veni, vidi, vulchi.

Offline Batz

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FesterMA is Fester FURBALL
« Reply #81 on: November 19, 2003, 07:00:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Question: why don't you "furball guys" play in the DA? Stupid idea, isn't it?

The strat guys play in the MA because that's where HTC put the strat. It didn't just appear there. It was put there by HTC. They put none in the DA, which is free of strat, free of buffs, free of fuel porkage. Get it? So if you're a furballer, why don't you go there?


There are also strat objects and buildings offline. Why don’t you play there?

Leitwolf is 100% correct. The strat in the main is just a silly little side show to facilitate combat. There is no real strategy to it. I haven’t played in the main in along time but I hear many good things about fester’s map. Some folks don’t care about war winning or any of that non-sense.

But there needs to be a balance. 1 suicide tard should not be able to impact the fun of 100 others. The "strat" types can still do their mass auger runs. They just need to take off from rear bases, fly longer to find an undefended base. They have np forcing the very same thing on the "furballers" especially when they pork/auger the fuel.

There is one clear difference in furballer and strat.

Strat guys kill themselves over and over battling inanimate "strat" objects and demand that their style impact everyone else.

Where as a furballer just wants to mix it up with another player.

Strat guys can battle all the buildings they want offline. But of course they wont get any attention that way. They wont be "taking it for their team" or "winning a war" etc....

Offline yowser

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« Reply #82 on: November 19, 2003, 09:12:05 PM »
"....'Cuz there's no one to try and stop ya offline, ya ninny!".

The last thing the strat types want is opposition or anything resembling a fight.

yowser

Offline Rutilant

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« Reply #83 on: November 19, 2003, 09:48:53 PM »
I'm a strat guy.. I like a good challenge

Offline BGBMAW

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« Reply #84 on: November 20, 2003, 01:12:27 AM »
batz i wont even go into where ur so wrong on many points but  1 for now...


furballers just want to mix it up???

LMFAO!!!!!


ya the frikn HO dweeb  who thtas all he can do evrytime sure is "mixing it up"


is it our fault ur scared to kill bomers?? i dont get it...they battle ftrs as well as "inam objects"..

im glad HTC made this gaem encompass a great deal of WW2 tactics/planes fights...

.."I havent played in MA  a long time but..."

lmfao..


One order of WhaaaamBurger and Cry Fries up

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #85 on: November 20, 2003, 02:49:34 AM »
Leitwolf - you're starting to sound like Toad. :D Yes, mild sarcasm indeed. ;) Nothing to worry about.

Batz, you are also sounding like Toad in your interpretation of "strat player". Like Toad, you have this vision of black or white, with nothing in between. Someone is either a fighter, or a building battler. Nothing in between. But there are shades of grey in between.

I think it's mildly insulting to HTC to describe the strat in the MA as a silly little side show. They have gone to great lengths to put it there, and it's a complex issue. I admit to not understanding it fully myself. OK, field capture is not much, but it's what we've got. When one side is trying to take a base, and the enemy is trying to prevent it, that leads to combat - combat with a purpose, ie. not just manufactured fights whose purpose is to pad the scores of the participants. "oooh look, Daddy, I got a high k/h"... :rolleyes: Strat guys are not suicide porkers by definition. Many folks interested in the strat angle fly buffs to destroy strat targets - I suppose you feel that buffs are just another silly little side show? Again, HTC went to considerable lengths to model buffs, and to implement the Norden, and to include these aircraft in the MA.

As for one or a handful of tards ruining the fun of others, would you consider a buff (or handful of 110s working together) levelling the fighter hangars at a field as "ruining the fun for many others"? I think you're quite wrong if you do. That's a perfectly legitimate purpose for buffs. Some people whine when that happens, but for buffs to destroy a ground target is sort of the whole bleedin' point. When are you dolts going to understand that?

I think you need to reassess what HTC was trying to achieve when they developed AH. It is a WW2 combat experience - check the caption on the HTC homepage. It is not billed as a furball fantasy, or simply a dogfight dreamland. There are silly little side shows for that - the DA, for example. But the MAIN arena is where everything is to be found. WW2 combat did not just involve dogfights. WW2 combat involved bombers, tanks and other GVs, and ground attack aircraft operating from carriers as in the Pacific war - that's why all these forms of WW2 combat are simulated in the main arena.

Maybe you should read some WW2 books by some real WW2 pilots. Sometimes they would go for weeks without getting kill or even seeing the enemy. Of course, you would find that boring. If you're only interested in half or one third of the game that HTC has produced for the MA, you can find that third in the DA.

Offline Batz

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« Reply #86 on: November 20, 2003, 04:26:49 AM »
HT knows it’s a silly sideshow. None of the "strat" in the current main developed from some master plan. It was pieced together over time. Some aspects added, some dropped and some adjusted. But it has never been more then what it is now.

The difference is at one time nobody cared what the other guy did and no one made it their goal to stop the other side from flying. There was base capture and vulching but there was always a good fight.

 I played warbirds as well and there was no way I was going to waste 6 bucks climbing, cruising just to place a bomb on an inanimate object. I went for the fight to get my money's worth.

It is you that needs to read some history if you think anything you see in the main is real. You can stoke yourself off all you want about how real you want it to be but no amount of stroking will make it so. Look at your old stomping ground, isn’t that really "real"? The more real it got the less players it kept.

It's not me that’s confused it's you. You impose yourself into these threads and make assumptions. I know what and whom I am referring to when I say "building battlers". I have made enough replies and you can certainly search and find exactly who and what I am talking about.

As much as you may want to portray the majority of strat types as benevolent "strategy" oriented players it’s just not true. For every one of those there are 15 pork and auger types crying for attention. They cry, "furballing is pointless", as if flying into the ground after riding in a bomb is some sort of grand and noble purpose.

99% of the furball types could careless how you or anyone else plays as long as there is a balance. Making a map where it takes 1 hour of flying about is not fun for quite a few folks. Then add in a half dozen pork and auger types jacking up the fuel, suiciding the cv or the mishion dude squad and their gang planner rampaging against the lowly fighter hanger and there is no "balance".

Fester made a map with close fields. The close fields ensure a big fast paced furballs. If the "strat fellow" doesn’t like it he can fly from a rear base and then fly to an enemy rear base and auger his heart out. Sounds good don’t it? A little for everyone right? Well wrong, because strat boy is ignored and that’s what upsets him. He has no impact and all the little furballers are having a blast and he can’t stand that.

These same people hate the furball because they get killed and they think, "Why I am getting killed for nothing?” Well it is all for nothing. Everyone wins as long as everyone has fun.

Every time you say "DA" to the furballers they can say "offline" to you and the want to be generals. But offline there are no "impact players" and if a building blows up and there is no one there to see it...?


That said you didn’t answer Leitwolf's question:

Quote
Can you name things this map took away from strat players?


and

Quote
I hope I’m incorrect here but it looks like some of you strat guys have a problem if you can't stop someone else having fun?


And I'll add one of my own,

Quote
In the context of the ah main arena what is "strategy?"


Don’t answer with that red herring "buffs destroying strat targets". For one, you don’t see that happen to often in ah. Why? The buff guys will tell you because there is no reason to. Again back to "impact". HT has adjusted the impact of bombers and "strat" targets. And two, go and get you a book and see what it took for strategic bombing to have an impact in the real war.

You can start here,

http://www.anesi.com/ussbs02.htm

So much for realism.

Offline Rude

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« Reply #87 on: November 20, 2003, 09:02:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Question: why don't you "furball guys" play in the DA? Stupid idea, isn't it?

The strat guys play in the MA because that's where HTC put the strat. It didn't just appear there. It was put there by HTC. They put none in the DA, which is free of strat, free of buffs, free of fuel porkage. Get it? So if you're a furballer, why don't you go there?


You wish....not gonna happen...best to get over it.

Please explain to all of us why and how Festers map prohibits you from your roll as a strateegerist?

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #88 on: November 20, 2003, 09:03:49 AM »
deja/mini... I have played the fester map and so far... it is the best I have seen... when that perception changes I will let you know.

I think I am managing my time fairly well but yu probly could do it better... how bout coming over and doing a study instead of just talking about something that... well... you haven't really seen?

as for attacks... you are right.   I am ashamed of myself and from now on I will try to be as sensitive and caring as you yourself.

Curious tho.... what do you think is the agenda of all the other posters on here that rave about festers and what is the agenda/problem with all those who seem to feel pizza is crap?   You did notice that didn't you?

beetle... I would rather meet a bunch of 110's that didn't have bombs and had furballing in mind more than a bunch of 110's trying to avoid any fight so that they could drop bombs on some undefended toolshed somewhere.
lazs

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #89 on: November 20, 2003, 09:14:45 AM »
Like I said lazs... you loved fester's map before you even played it.  You'll continue to love it simply because you said you would... never mind you don't play it.  You are so full of rhetoric its simply pathetic.

And lazs... this is about you and your presence here.  Quit trying to say "what about them?!?".  You are babbling nonsense.  I'll continue to call you on it.

BTW.. did you play last night lazs?  What map was it?  Because your K/T went up dramatically.

MiniD