Author Topic: La-7 (Read 3421 times)

Nashwan · « **Reply #60 on:** December 08, 2001, 11:36:00 AM »

Here's a fun trick:
Every time a Luftwaffle complains about the Spit IX, check out their stats against it.
Invariably they do better against the old slow Spit AH has chosen to model than they do against other aircraft, but they still hate it with a vengance. Why?

Mandoble, for example, who wants a 1942 Spit perked but his 1944 Dora unperked, has the following stats this tour:
Overall kill/death 6.68/1
Kill/death against Spit IX 13/1

Why does such a good pilot, who finds the Spit so easy to kill, want it perked?

Pongo · « **Reply #61 on:** December 08, 2001, 11:51:00 AM »

Nashwan
I have been told in the past that digging up stats no matter how effective at wining an argument..is in bad taste..
consider yourself warned..

Toad · « **Reply #62 on:** December 08, 2001, 11:59:00 AM »

No, no, no.

It's not whether or not they find it an easy kill.

It's just that they see TOO MANY of them in the MA. All they ever get to fight is one or two plane types.

That's why most of them want a dedicated Axis V Allied European Air War arena. Much more variety in the type of aircraft they get to meet in combat that way.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #63 on:** December 08, 2001, 08:17:00 PM »

Nashwan, what we have is a extremely rare "mixture" that is anything but a 1942 regular spitIX.
About D9, killing with it is much much more difficult than with SpitIX, in fact, D9 is not a popular plane. And yep, this is a 1944 plane, but not designed for our furballing-low-level arena where Spits, Las, Yaks and Nikis shine. All these planes have also a major advantage here, they can live in ethernal blackout with minimal or null E lose.

Anyway this thread was about the infinity-E-generator-indestructible La7.

Karnak · « **Reply #64 on:** December 08, 2001, 08:25:00 PM »

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Originally posted by MANDOBLE:
...they can live in ethernal blackout with minimal or null E lose.

Got any more BS where that came from?

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Anyway this thread was about the infinity-E-generator-indestructible La7.

Of course you did, how silly of me to have doubted you.

Kieran · « **Reply #65 on:** December 08, 2001, 10:59:00 PM »

You cannot by any stretch of the imagination champion a "Perk the Spit IX" cause. Sure, furball the D9 against the Spit and you lose. Play hit-and-run against the Spit and you win. You know this, I don't have to tell you. You control the fight, unless you get caught low- in which case you pour on that 10-minute wep and run.

Sure, killing the Spit may be hard for ya, but getting away from it should be a piece of cake.

As for La's just can't find it in my heart to hate them. I just don't believe they are THAT good, nor are they quite THAT numerous yet.

Nashwan · « **Reply #66 on:** December 09, 2001, 06:31:00 AM »

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Nashwan, what we have is a extremely rare "mixture" that is anything but a 1942 regular spitIX.

It's performance is that of a 1942 plane. It has the ability to carry bombs, which it shouldn't, but that hardly has much effect in air to air.
It's only advantage is the E guns package, but swapping 2 50 cals for 4 303s when you already have 2 Hispanos doesn't seem like that much difference.

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Anyway this thread was about the infinity-E-generator-indestructible La7.

Yes, but you widened it to include the Spit.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #67 on:** December 09, 2001, 07:18:00 AM »

Ok, just some small notes about the Spit speed.

1 - Spit is faster than D9 at hi alts.
2 - Spit is faster than D9 at substained climb at most alts except very low.
3 - Spit is faster than D9 in a dive.
4 - Spit is much faster than D9 turning (degrees per second)with much less E lose.
5 - Spit is much faster than D9 in vertical zooms (and stills forever there).
6 - Spit is slower than D9 in LEVEL flight at medium and lo alts.

Ok, the conclusion is that Spit is a slow plane???

And a last thing, D9 is ony "anything" with WEP ON, and WEP doesnt still forever.

Nashwan, our actual Spit, aside other deviations, has an exagerated roll rate at lo/medium speeds compared to NACA ones.

oboe · « **Reply #68 on:** December 09, 2001, 07:37:00 AM »

I'm coming around to Toad's way of thinking, I think...

It'd be interesting to see what happens to MA variety if every time you climbed into the cockpit, you were making a decision about how many perk points you were risking vs the performance you were getting from the plane.

Karnak · « **Reply #69 on:** December 09, 2001, 08:11:00 AM »

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1 - Spit is faster than D9 at hi alts.

BS. The Fw190D-9 is faster at all altitudes, although not pronouncedly faster at high altitudes.

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2 - Spit is faster than D9 at substained climb at most alts except very low.

Maybe, I haven't tested it. Solution? Level out and leave the Spit in the dust.

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3 - Spit is faster than D9 in a dive.

Spit may be slightly faster in a steep dive after the Fw190D-9 pulls away initially. Solution? Level out and leave the Spit in the dust, or do a shallow dive.

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4 - Spit is much faster than D9 turning (degrees per second)with much less E lose.

Gee, ya think?

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5 - Spit is much faster than D9 in vertical zooms (and stills forever there).

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but when I BnZ with the Fw190D-9 I get a lot more zoom out of it than I do out of the Spit IX.

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6 - Spit is slower than D9 in LEVEL flight at medium and lo alts.

BS, the Fw190D-9 is faster at all altitudes, and vastly faster at low altitudes. BTW, this is a repeat of your first "point".

Plus:

The Fw190D-9 has more than twice as much cannon ammo.

The Fw190D-9 has much greater fuel endurance.

The Fw190D-9 has better acceleration.

The Fw190D-9 has better visibility.

The Fw190D-9 rolls very much better.

The Fw190D-9's performance is optimized for AH combat altitudes, whereas the Spit F.IX is not.

Yes, it is easier to kill an idiot when you are flying a Spit than when you are flying an Fw190D-9. So what. Are we to judge all aircraft based on the ease with which they kill idiots?

The Fw190D-9 offers the experienced sim pilot much more than the Spitfire F.MkIX does. If I were to fly for K/D ratio, as the average sim pilot that I am, I would only fly the Bf109G-10, Fw190D-9, La-7 and P-51D in AH.

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

Urchin · « **Reply #70 on:** December 09, 2001, 08:33:00 AM »

Yep, what Karnak said. He hit the nail on the head that time.

Anyway, just look at the numbers guys. Check out Dejavu's stat pages over the last several months. Sure, there are still some "big dogs" on the block, but the arena IS getting more diverse as we go along.

Fact of the matter is, as much as I dread to say it, we need a faster Spitfire in the arena. It doesn't have to be a whole helluva lot faster, but maybe one that is optimized to get performance at low levels instead of the one we have (which is great at 25k and up, but really slow compared to the competition under 15k).

Karnak, correct me if I am wrong, but the Spit IX LF was optimized to fight at low levels, was it not? And that would be a 43 to 44 airplane instead of a 42 to 43 one.

The Spit is DAMN easy to fight. It may be hard to kill if there is a very good pilot at the controls, but it is also very hard to die to if you even remotely competent and in one of the faster planes (which is probably everything but the Zeke). Even if HTC introduced a more 'capable' Spit (like the LF version of the Spit IX), people STILL wouldn't be able to fly it to its full potential, because most of the people who fly the Spit are, well, newbies. Once they've mastered basic flight, they will get sick of people running from them and move on to a faster plane.

Anyway, thats my rather long-winded 25 cents.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #71 on:** December 09, 2001, 09:24:00 AM »

Karnak, it seems you have very little idea of what a 190D9 is (very different than A8/A5). So, no matter to reply you about D9 vs Spit.

Ah, and for your information, K/D is the less important factor here.

Ups, and perhaps your dictionary (or your mind) has more words than your beloved "BS".

Urchin, Karnak didnt hit any nail, you hit it discovering an evidence, Spits are easy to kill because 90% of people flying it has a very green level. A competent Spit pilot will force a draw or a victory over a same level D9 one.

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: MANDOBLE ]

-ammo- · « **Reply #72 on:** December 09, 2001, 09:39:00 AM »

ummm I dont get it. The LA7 IS a tuff opponent at low altitudes. The spit IX is a great AC but uber? Perk? Maybe the Dora. Now that AC is more in line with that suggestion. The Spit IX we currently have is an easy plane to fly, it is seen everywhere in the arena with new guys flying it. Its got hispanos and in a low alt furball it can be deadly. but it does not compete well with the faster AC. If HTC was thinking of perking more AC, I would suggest the 109G10 and the FW190D for starters. The *cough* (this got me in trouble before) P-51D and the LA7 would be there too.

Kieran · « **Reply #73 on:** December 09, 2001, 10:11:00 AM »

Some day people may very well get their wish; when they do, watch the arena numbers fall as the newbies who come tire of endlessly dying in their 202's.

Please, no BS about how that will only make them better pilots. It won't matter, because they won't stick around long enough to earn the points to get the better planes. The learning curve is already steep, and making it steeper won't keep people.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #74 on:** December 09, 2001, 10:28:00 AM »

Kieran newbies have SpitV, C205, 109F, Ki161, La5, F6F, etc as good choices.

Our arena is not a WWII theater, we have a lo level furball arena, nothing more and nothing less.