Small Maps – a Creeping Process. Hmmm…

[MetaTron]

Just out of curiosity, Beet1e, how do my career stats shape up? I bet Toad makes me look bad, eh?

[Toad]

No, Voss. Making you look bad has been your own particular specialty for more than a decade.

[Steve]

Voss, you're SO all that, do you come w/ a bag of chips?

[MadMan]

Pizza Sucks...
The fight is too spread out...  Makes it too easy for milkrunners to hit undefended strats and take undefended bases...

The front is stretched out over 75 bases... leaves about 2 people per base if everyone is defending during peak times...  not a good way to play.


I read the people saying, well when Pizza is up there are about 600people playing so it must not be that unpopular...  you could not be more wrong...  I hate Pizza, but I play it... why???  Cause I am paying $15/month regardless of weatehr I play or not, so why waste my money???  I just suck it up, load my plane with 100% fuel and drop tanks and fly for 45mins to find a fight where I can fight for 3 mins, kill a few enemy and then get swatted by his 50 friends who have upped in their La7's and Nik's.

Why do people like the small maps more....  simple, more action, more often.  And then there is always the chance for a reset...  when was the last time someone actually won on Pizza?!!?!???  It's always exciting near a reset... the last ditch defense and counter attacks (that sometimes actually work) and if you're on the offensive... trying to overcome those situations where the panic and crunch has all 120 enemies at only 2 fields.


SO bring on the small maps, more of em and more often...   or we can stick with the boredom of pizza, and the useless fighting that takes place in Tank Town on trinity.

[beet1e]

Mr. Toad.

I’m not going to sit here going through page after page after page of your stats from years gone by for the purposes of adding to a thread about map rotation. Shane is correct about Innominate’s stats. They’re not wrong, they just didn’t start till later. But for the purposes of our discussion, they are perfectly adequate. I’m as interested in what went on before Innominate’s stats came into being as I am in checking your P47D30 stats in whatever DOS sim you were playing in 1989 on a Commodore 64 or ZX81 Spectrum. And once again – for the purposes of a discussion about map rotation, which is what this thread is about, it’s all totally irrelevant. As for ultra risk avoidance, you think that’s me? As I killed that first 190, this was the scene behind me. That zeke was doing more than 300mph. Luckily, so was I!

I can fly "carefully" or "realistically" or whatever the current euphemism happens to be but it bores me to tears.

Gawd…that bad, huh? You must have had a boring time at work. I was afraid of that. So instead, you tried flying the D30 as a 2K weed wacker and died a lot, and kept having to go through that whole rigmarole of taking off, and spending valuable moments climbing to 2K. Oh well, at least you weren’t bored. I realise that the only interesting thing about realistic flying for you was taking off and landing. And dying is cool! But flight sim landings can be fun too, you know. You must try them some time.

As I said, of the F4U1C escapade, the kills were of fighters/GVs – the field was covered with those as I came through and pipped an LVT. No risk at all! I could have used a 1D, though the LVTs might have been harder to kill with that. To reiterate, I was up in the 1C to guard against the very real possibility of the arrival of ju88s/LANCs. Seems it didn’t sink in the first time. Otherwise, I’ll use the 1D. Even in that, it’s well within the realms of possibility to shoot down an entire formation of LANCs. Not convinced? Let me know if you need the film.

Now as to your F4U-1C escapade, I only asked because I wondered if the guy that continually denigrates P-51/La-7/Spit/N1K1 pilots would himself fly the easiest-killing F4U of them all, the four Hispano powerhouse. (Oh.. yeah... check my stats in that too.  I suggest you do not use Innominate's page for that this time.) Suprise, suprise. You are just too funny... the walking contradiction.

Wow, Mr. Toad. You really are a desperate man. Or maybe you’re just bored. You must have been flying a P47D30. Properly! But here, you’ve surpassed yourself. You’re not just scraping the barrel, you’re going underneath it! And you’re obsessed about the past. We covered all this five months ago in a thread by MuckMAW. You were being all high and mighty on your TAS soapbox, condemning people for choosing to fly the F4U1C, and I said…

I just checked old Toady's stats, and several easymode planes are in his list - lol. In tour 44 at #3 we have the P51D (11 kills) and at #5 we have the LA7 (3 kills)...But get this, after all the railing in his last post, guess what his #4 plane was? Clue: Amazing guns, virtually unparalleled ground attack capabilities, the ability to take off from normal bases as well as carriers, nice medium to high speed handling, a great roll rate, 800 rounds of 20mm ammo, tough as nails, and it's relatively faster than "dweeb rides of choice" that turn better. The is the most well-rounded plane in the game, bar none. To pretend otherwise is to delude yourself.

I was just answering your questions, Mr. Toad. NONE of the above relates to the topic which at was at one time under discussion in this thread. Face it, Bufo. Even you have limits. And now, you've finally run out of gas. My topic was about map rotation, and lamenting the fact that Pizza had been rolled out and substituted by Baltic. But here you are, talking about events that occurred on other maps, other tours, different planes, different ways of flying, and stuff that happened in years gone by. I'll be seeing my mother on the weekend. She's got my birth certificate, on which are recorded my tiny footprints. I'll post a picture of that in this thread. It'll give you something different to talk about! And it might be more on topic than what's gone before.

[beet1e]

Madman! Don't mind me while I goof off with Mr. Toad. He and his friends -Lazs, slapshot, nopoop- are a bunch of good old boys, and I mean old - all older than me and the wrong side of 50.

Sorry if you don’t like the pizza map. I feel the same way about the small maps.

I’d just like to address some of the things you said in your post.

The fight is too spread out... Makes it too easy for milkrunners to hit undefended strats and take undefended bases... The front is stretched out over 75 bases... leaves about 2 people per base if everyone is defending during peak times... not a good way to play.

A lot of people say that, but the inverse of that is to have a front line where there are only a few front line bases, and with 600 people online, it’s going to be furball-furball-furball. I don’t like furball-furball-furball for the same reasons Mr. Toad doesn’t like to fly a P47D30 the way it’s supposed to be flown – it bores me. That F4U1C escapade he talks about is a case in point. I don't enjoy seal clubbing the guys who have just upped. And he's right - it IS easy, which is why after three sorties and 21 kills I was bored to tears, and logged off. No challenge see. Which is also the reason I don't fly the P51/LA7/Spit ix subset... But I digress - it's a nasty habit I've picked up from Mr. Toad!

I hate Pizza, but I play it... why??? Cause I am paying $15/month regardless of weatehr I play or not, so why waste my money???

I regard it in the same way as a seasonal investment like a holiday home. You won't be able (or won't want) to use it all year round. Same for AH. There are weeks and certain times in those weeks when AH does not interest me.

I just suck it up, load my plane with 100% fuel and drop tanks and fly for 45mins to find a fight where I can fight for 3 mins, kill a few enemy and then get swatted by his 50 friends who have upped in their La7's and Nik's.

Hold on a minute. You talk about "undefended bases" and the fight being "too spread out (2 people per base)" but then speak of 51 guys appearing in LA7s. The two scenarios are inconsistent. As for undefended bases/milkrunning, there are no fewer than FIVE warning systems for when a base is under attack: Flashing map, siren, the verbal "base under attack" warning, radar, and bardar. How many more warning systems need there be to cajole the defence into getting off their butts to defend? No, I suspect the real issue is that when they come under attack, they don't want to defend for fear of dying. So as Lazs would put it, they stay out of harm's way, quivering under their bunks because the option to come in with a P51/LA7 from a field two minutes away with a 10K alt advantage is not available on the pizza map. And the dweebs hate that. :lol

Why do people like the small maps more.... simple, more action, more often. And then there is always the chance for a reset... when was the last time someone actually won on Pizza?!!?!??? It's always exciting near a reset... the last ditch defense and counter attacks (that sometimes actually work) and if you're on the offensive... trying to overcome those situations where the panic and crunch has all 120 enemies at only 2 fields.

 Pizza was actually reset last Sunday night. I believe it was also reset the last time it was up which would have been six weeks before that. As for the excitement approaching a reset, when the defence is down to two fields, that is a subjective matter. If I may borrow Mr. Toad's mantle for a moment, I will tell you about something that happened four years ago in a different game - WB. A squad event in which I had to fly a P51D. The defence was down to very few bases - two at the most. In the session that followed I got 27 kills and never even got pinged once - even when killing a ju88, bearing in mind that WB buff gunners were automatic - otto. It was as easy as pie, and as far as I am concerned, as boring as hell. After the squad bit was over, I asked if I could switch to a more challenging plane, and changed to a F4U. I still have my whine email to my CO about being made to fly a P51D.

[Toad]

Originally posted by beet1e
...checking your P47D30 stats...it’s all totally irrelevant.

It's you that brought up the Jug stats, chum. But we're pretty used to you arguing in a totally irrelevant manner. The least you could have done is get them right. You couldn't even do that on your SECOND run at it.

So lament "off-topic" all you like. You're the instigator, stat man.

 

Originally posted by beet1e
So instead, you tried flying the D30 as a 2K weed wacker and died a lot,.... at least you weren’t bored.

Correct. Boredom is the true enemy here. There's guys that can fight amazingly well in any of the Jugs in low-level turn and burns. I'm just not one of them. Ammo and Sancho spring to mind. At least I tried, though. For me, the somnolence of the Beetfite is not a viable option.


As for all your plane blather, I can easily understand you trying to obscure your fondness for the -1C, given how you routinely denigrate the P-51/Spit/N1K1/La-7 fliers. If there ever was a point/shoot/destroy aircraft, the 4 Hispano blue monster is it.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Beet.

BTW, Beet... don't you realize your entire post was off-topic? Focus, lad, focus!

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Toad
It's you that brought up the Jug stats, chum.  

Yep, because you kept saying it was a "no risk" flight - when you haven't even seen the film. So I had a look at your stats and saw that you didn't have much of a clue how to use the P47 - any of them. So then you pointed out your stats from earlier tours, and it simply reinforced my belief!

BTW, Beet... don't you realize your entire post was off-topic?

Well of course it was! I was responding to all the points YOU made. It was bound to be off topic. That's why I made a separate posting for Madman!

[Toad]

Oh, I know how to use a Jug the way you do. I just didn't and don't do that because I find it boring.

But feel free to make an assumption that is totally unwarranted based on your own limited view of how to play the game.

It's your best, safest move, after all.

BTW, how you coming with that F4U-1? Did you ever get the hang of it?

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Toad
Oh, I know how to use a Jug the way you do. I just didn't and don't do that because I find it boring.

Oh yeah? You know how to get 10 kills in a sortie in a D30? Maybe you do. But that would be boring. Dying is clearly much more enjoyable for you.

But feel free to make an assumption that is totally unwarranted based on your own limited view of how to play the game.

Hah! Talk about hypocrite. It's you and your ilk who are interested only in one third of the game - the air to air furballing.

F4U1 - same problem as the P38 - limited visibility, and my SA is bad enough! The 1D is working well for me though. I ran into your man Mars01 last night. Can't remember much about it though.

[lazs2]

the air to air combat is only a third of the game?   What is the other two thirds?

lazs

[Toad]

Yeah, actually I do. I can also get 7 in an F4F-4 in a furball and land. I've been furballing in a 205 and getting 5-6 too. Can you? This is starting out below the multiple enemies, now.

My interest in furballing doesn't make me a hypocrite in the least. I've always preferred it and said so.

I don't care that you prefer limited-risk flying, either. That's your choice. I just don't really respect that type of flying and I think that's what bugs you.

Ask anyone in this game who are the "good" players and most don't have to check stats. "Good" players beat you on YOUR terms and most folks can quickly list a few.

However, you rarely see anyone naming the limited risk, beat you on THEIR terms pilots.

As I said before, when you have the advantage you're supposed to win.

Bottom line of your thrust in this thread is you don't like small maps because it's harder for you to fly your type of flights without "interlopers" showing up. Big maps allow you to avoid interlopers.

It isn't really about the map per se. It's about whether you can avoid having to fight on someone else's terms.

IMO, of course.

Toodles.

[Furious]

These vanity threads have gotten tiresome.

Can't we all just admit that beetle is a great pilot with fantastic spelling and grammar skills who knows which maps are best for AH and avoid these threads in the future.

zazen/metavoss too.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Toad
Yeah, actually I do. I can also get 7 in an F4F-4 in a furball and land. I've been furballing in a 205 and getting 5-6 too. Can you? This is starting out below the multiple enemies, now.

Well good. I'm happy for you. In the C205 for last tour, you're at 32k and 19d. Why, with a little more practice you might just push past the 2-1 mark. I see you've already made it past 3-1 in the F4F in the same tour. As for me, I've never ever flown either of those planes - not even offline. But I realise the main thrust of your hero worship has always been with the pilots of the uber-turning wonderplanes.

I don't care that you prefer limited-risk flying, either. That's your choice. I just don't really respect that type of flying and I think that's what bugs you.

You can respect who you want and disrespect who you want. To use your own words, I don't give a fig. But the fact that you couch it in those terms from your soapbox is a measure of your arrogance.

Bottom line of your thrust in this thread is you don't like small maps because it's harder for you to fly your type of flights without "interlopers" showing up. Big maps allow you to avoid interlopers.

Wrong. The bottom line of this thread (the smaller "on topic" part near the beginning) is that we've each got our preferences. You are never going to talk me into becoming a T&B guy, and you'll never again be interested in the energy fighters. In this thread, I acknowledged that each person has a map preference. And I don't mind if there are maps that I don't like - so long the map rotation is balanced and fair so that I can get a fair crack on the maps that I do like. That is the bottom line.

I don't like the small maps because of the problem with interlopers, amongst other things. Seems that folks who don't like Pizza dislike it because they cannot become interlopers. At least, not without a 6 minute flight...

[Shane]

kill the one(s) you're ganging faster.  learn to fight.  then the "interlopers" wouldn't be too much of a problem.