Author Topic: Small Maps – a Creeping Process. Hmmm…  (Read 11881 times)

Offline Zazen13

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Small Maps – a Creeping Process. Hmmm…
« Reply #75 on: March 06, 2004, 10:25:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Exit polls at voting booths sample a very small percentage of the total voting population yet tend to be  very accurate, w/ in a few points. With that in mind, if the majority of people who post in here dislike the pizza map, there is a very good chance this  is reflected in the whole of the MA population as well.


Yup, I used to be a supervisor of a customer service department for a large corporation, the rule of thumb is...For every customer that takes the time to contact the company in writing or other correspondence about a grievance there are ten others equally or more dissatisfied who just didn't bother to take the time to do so.

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Offline MetaTron

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Small Maps – a Creeping Process. Hmmm…
« Reply #76 on: March 06, 2004, 10:32:51 PM »
The last time I was on AKDessert map there were over six-hundred people also online. The number one complaint isn't the map itself or the gameplay on the map, but the colors and textures.

On the BBS you hear whines about numbers and how people can't find a fight. Two different views completely when comparing online and BBS posts.

As a Bishop all I have to do is mount a defense against rooks and I will see overwhelming numbers. Against knights its a little different, as you have to figure out where their next sneak attack will be. Either way, if it's a fight you want then as a Bishop it isn't hard to find one. That's my take on it anyway. It could be different for everyone I suppose, perspective being purely subjective.

Offline Grimm

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Small Maps – a Creeping Process. Hmmm…
« Reply #77 on: March 06, 2004, 10:49:32 PM »
In my opinion Pizza is my lest favorite map.   But some seem to like it,  so they are due thier time to play on it.

I do think this map could be improved to the point it would not be nearly so hated by some.  

First if it was hit by the magic shrinking ray, and tightened up just a little.   Nothing radical,  but say 20%?  

Next put it in the super duper Map squishing machine,  Keep the canyons and mountains,  but level it out some.   Reduce it by say 40%.  (arent some fields at 3x the height of Denver?)

Run it thru the feild converter and change some of the GV bases to Airfields,  not all but say 30% of them.

Lastly fire up the tanker planes and give it a bit of paint job, Im not sure what color would be best, but something more popular.

I think you could keep alot of the flavor of the map, yet improve its popularity at the same time.   It was the first large map attempt,  I think alot has been learned since it was created.   With a little effort,  it could be improved.

Offline Toad

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Small Maps – a Creeping Process. Hmmm…
« Reply #78 on: March 06, 2004, 11:19:56 PM »
Beet.I've never bothered to watch a film posted on the BBS but I must admit. I'd like to watch this particular one of yours. The first part, where you land the five. Feats of derring-do....... maybe it's time for me to watch how you nailed all those enemies from your severe disadvantage.  ;)
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Offline Yorba

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Small Maps – a Creeping Process. Hmmm…
« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2004, 03:02:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
Yup, I used to be a supervisor of a customer service department for a large corporation, the rule of thumb is...For every customer that takes the time to contact the company in writing or other correspondence about a grievance there are ten others equally or more dissatisfied who just didn't bother to take the time to do so.

Zazen


And what was the ratio Zazen, for when someone writes a letter complimenting the service they received?  I don't mind pizza at all, but haven't posted in these threads defending it.  Those that hate something are normally the most agressive.

I personally hate the small maps and normally just log when I see them.  I enjoy playing the whole planeset, accomplishing goals, and getting that rare 1v1 fight that goes to the deck with each guy gritting it out.  THAT is what the game is about for me, i have no interest in vulching, or killing 1 plane with 4 friends, or getting killed by 5 enemies.  If i am forced to fly against silly la7's, nikis, and spits, then at least the large maps let me engage them 1v1 more often.

Offline beet1e

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Small Maps – a Creeping Process. Hmmm…
« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2004, 04:49:41 AM »
Steve/Zazen. You seem to be in accord that a random sampling of the players (this BBS for example) provides a fair assessment of the overall view of the total subscribership. Zazen seems to be suggesting a 10% sample in his scenario...

... so how fair do you think it would be if, in the forthcoming US Presidential election, the government said that they were going to economise on the voting procedure. Only 10% of the electorate would be polled. You are eligible to vote only if the house number or building number where you live ends in a 5. That would be every tenth building or every tenth house. From what you've said in your posts here, that would be a fair and accurate assessment of the electorate as a whole. How would you like that?

Grimm. I don't want to see Pizza squished or squashed. I don't suppose there are plans to space out any of the fields on the small maps, so why should the larger maps like pizza be squashed up? I don't want to see the altitudes reduced either. I love the high alt fights in the Jug, and getting the LA7s out of their comfort zone. I love even more the fact that when a base is put under pressure, the opposition does not have the dweeb option of upping EasyMode™ planes (sorry Steve) from the next base to repel the attack. Things are evenly matched. The fights can take place between bases instead of at bases. MiniD was right about that in an earlier post. Already in this thread, we've had 6 minutes flying time equated to a "vast distance", which suggests that some folks want the nearest base to be much nearer - maybe 2 minutes away. And we all know what that leads to. Wall to wall LA7/Spit/N1K and furball-furball-furball.

I'm in agreement with MetaTron. It seems that too many people want things handed to them on a plate instead of making things happen themselves. People have whined about the colours and textures on Pizza. It's a desert terrain FFS! What do they expect - purple sand and orange cactus? I myself did have difficulty spotting the red/enemy icons, but I did not whine. I fixed the problem myself by changing the con icon colour to the girly pink that you see in my screesnshots. Works well on all maps.

My whole point in this thread is that whereas furballing is flightsim utopia for some, it bores the crap out of others. I'm not trying to convert anyone to pizza, just as some of us will never be interested in nonstop furballing.

Accept the maps as they are. If there's a map up that I don't like, I'll do something else that week - go to the CT for example, or play Scrabble with Tomato (she nearly always wins!). Rather than complain about a map, design your own. All I ask is that the map rotation be balanced and fair.

Like WildThing says in my sig., Pizza is the perfect map... and if it's perfect, it cannot be improved. ;):)

Mr. Toad! I have the film, and will use individual screenshots from it to substantiate anything I've said in this thread. Funny how the one time I do not post a film is the one time I'm asked to post one. As Margaret Thatcher once said: "It's a funny old world". :lol
« Last Edit: March 07, 2004, 05:59:52 AM by beet1e »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2004, 07:40:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Funny how the one time I do not post a film is the one time I'm asked to post one.


Oh Beet I think it's pretty simple. You've never been one to hold back on tooting your own horn with the films of your great victories.

I think you stuck your foot in it with this one though. Given your propensity for posting films to prove your points, the sudden reluctance to display your glory speaks volumes.

I think most of us can read between the lines and understand why you don't want anyone to see it. After you made such a big deal about your wonderful sortie with "no interlopers" and the "lack of an "LA7 opportunist vulching me from the field next door", it would seem that you had a lovely, relative unopposed flight where you most likely had the advantage at all times.

Am I wrong? Go ahead and post the whole film. I'd love to see it.

I suspect though that you won't because it will support Laz' view of sky accountants and folks that generally are afraid to fight from a disadvantage or even on equal terms.

Don't tell me I'm wrong; show me I'm wrong. Post the film.

And remember these immortal words: "An La-7 on your six is better than no La-7 at all!"
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Offline beet1e

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Small Maps – a Creeping Process. Hmmm…
« Reply #82 on: March 07, 2004, 08:32:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Oh Beet I think it's pretty simple. You've never been one to hold back on tooting your own horn with the films of your great victories.

I think you stuck your foot in it with this one though. Given your propensity for posting films to prove your points, the sudden reluctance to display your glory speaks volumes.

I think most of us can read between the lines and understand why you don't want anyone to see it. After you made such a big deal about your wonderful sortie with "no interlopers" and the "lack of an "LA7 opportunist vulching me from the field next door", it would seem that you had a lovely, relative unopposed flight where you most likely had the advantage at all times.

Am I wrong? Go ahead and post the whole film. I'd love to see it.

I suspect though that you won't because it will support Laz' view of sky accountants and folks that generally are afraid to fight from a disadvantage or even on equal terms.

Don't tell me I'm wrong; show me I'm wrong. Post the film.

And remember these immortal words: "An La-7 on your six is better than no La-7 at all!"
...none of which has ANYTHING to do with the topic being debated. This is a thread about map rotation. But here you are, yapping about horn tooting, sky accountants, LA7s, advantages... you forgot to mention personal stats! Guess you're leaving that to Lazs. :lol

Offline Zazen13

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Small Maps – a Creeping Process. Hmmm…
« Reply #83 on: March 07, 2004, 09:10:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yorba
And what was the ratio Zazen, for when someone writes a letter complimenting the service they received?  I don't mind pizza at all, but haven't posted in these threads defending it.  Those that hate something are normally the most agressive.

I personally hate the small maps and normally just log when I see them.  I enjoy playing the whole planeset, accomplishing goals, and getting that rare 1v1 fight that goes to the deck with each guy gritting it out.  THAT is what the game is about for me, i have no interest in vulching, or killing 1 plane with 4 friends, or getting killed by 5 enemies.  If i am forced to fly against silly la7's, nikis, and spits, then at least the large maps let me engage them 1v1 more often.


It is very rare for a satisfied customer to communicate that satisfaction. I think it happened once while I was working for that company, we had the letter framed and put in the lobby of our downtown office :)

Zazen
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #84 on: March 07, 2004, 09:52:30 AM »
admit it beetle... it's only you and 8 other guys in the known universe who can stand the pizza map.

lazs

Offline Grimm

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« Reply #85 on: March 07, 2004, 10:09:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e

Grimm. I don't want to see Pizza squished or squashed. I don't suppose there are plans to space out any of the fields on the small maps, so why should the larger maps like pizza be squashed up?  



Why?,  As I attempted to stated,  because it might appeal to a larger group of players.     I did not suggest extremes, just some adjustments to make it a better map overall.



As for the Small maps,  I like them.  

My personal wish would be for the rotation to have each map up for a week, regardless of resets.   That even includes your dreaded pizza map.  fair time for all types of play.  

Presently my map preferences go as follows.   Baltic, Trinity, FesterMA, ....(The Rest)....  Big Isles, Pizza.  I enjoy most all types of play.

If I have issue with anything in AH, it would be the ease of fuel porkage and the difficulity with resupply.

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #86 on: March 07, 2004, 10:21:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13

The simple fact is, why go through the trouble of voting, HTC already knows the vast majority dislike Pizza map and to a very slightly lesser degree Big Isles, they don't need to devise an online poll because they already know the result, but they'll never remove them anyway, someone has already made that decision.

I still maintain that making more maps in addition to the bad ones already present is only a bandaid fix. Until the "poor" maps are removed the dissatisfaction factor will remain high as we are still stuck with the 'poor' maps a healthy fraction of the time regardless of how many much better maps are brought into the rotation.


Zazen


What "Vast Majority" would that be?
Fact of the matter  the majority of people (myself not included)
Do not complain about any of the maps and just shut up and play.
What we see is the same 20-30 people complaining over and over and over thus making it seem like there are more then there really are. And I would hardly call 20,30,40 or even 50 a vast majority.

Cant go by the message boards either cause only a very small fraction ever post here probably cause they are either too busy playing or have seen what debates here usually degrade to and think better of it.

Could be the Vast majority of the people you know.
But if we went by that kind of count. The vast majority of the people I know dont like the small maps.
LOL If we got rid of all the maps that what each of us call a "Vast majority" do not like we wouldnt be playing at all.
So I can understand why HTC has taken the position it/he has.

I would agree on a couple points though.
On Pizza a couple alterations could be made to make it more suitable for everyone.
Repositioning of a few feilds, swapping some GV only feilds for airfeilds. How does the thought of furballing in a canyon grab ya?
That would certainly add a new demention now wouldnt it.LOL
Another is color. While the current color doesnt bother me I can understand how if might be a problem for others.
So how bout changing it from Desert to Snow?
We are in my opinion SORELY lacking for a winter terrain and the pizza features I think would suit this nicely.

Also each country should start with its own land mass and a few islands. I will never understand the logic behind the positioning of each country at the start which if your in the south looks like a giant noodle even to my 7 year old daughter. (and YES she has noticed and asked why it looks like that)
What did the person think when they layed (no pun intended) this out, that we wouldnt fight?

 With reguards to big Isles. I wholeheartedly agree the feilds are too far apart.
also there is a dire need for some GV spawn point alterations.
Some need to be added. and others need to be moved.
there is one I was at yesterday in the southeast that spawns GVs into the middle of the water. in an LTV it took nearly an hour to get to the enemy base.
 Hardly acceptable for game play.
There ar a few other GV bases that seem to have no real use whatsoever other then to be there.
But the main thing is the base spacing.
Simply too far.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2004, 10:37:19 AM by DREDIOCK »
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Offline beet1e

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Small Maps – a Creeping Process. Hmmm…
« Reply #87 on: March 07, 2004, 10:30:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
admit it beetle... it's only you and 8 other guys in the known universe who can stand the pizza map.
We won't know that without a poll. A proper popup poll, not a Lazs-style subliminal poll. ;) But if what you say is true, 5 of those guys were online Friday. I took screenshots of what people were saying about the pizza map and large maps in general. Funny how 5 of those 8 guys just happened to be in the same part of the known universe at the same time! :lol

Drediock - they had a snow terrain up in the CT not long ago. It was damned difficult to see anything!

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2004, 10:46:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
We won't know that without a poll. A proper popup poll, not a Lazs-style subliminal poll. ;) But if what you say is true, 5 of those guys were online Friday. I took screenshots of what people were saying about the pizza map and large maps in general. Funny how 5 of those 8 guys just happened to be in the same part of the known universe at the same time! :lol

Drediock - they had a snow terrain up in the CT not long ago. It was damned difficult to see anything!


Really? Hmm Ill haveta check it out again next time its around.
I remember playing in a winter terrain once a while back when the MA was down for one reason or another.
I remember not having any probs at all seeing anything. but then again like I said I dont have problems seeing anything in desert either.
Actually I have a harder time seeing the enemy in the greenish terrains then anywhere else.
I just  take it for what it is figuring the reason planes were painted the way they were was to make them harder to see by the enemy. So it just adds to the realism.
Otherwise why dont we just have all the planes painted Barbie Pink?
Though all spits should be painted that color anyway:D
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Offline Toad

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Small Maps – a Creeping Process. Hmmm…
« Reply #89 on: March 07, 2004, 03:50:52 PM »
I'll just assume that I was correct in the type of... fight... it was.


;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!