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Author Topic: ... in defense of the Mustang.....  (Read 2678 times)

Offline Fishu

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #60 on: December 30, 1999, 08:59:00 PM »
Mr.Ed, did I hear you saying zero, what model, early or late?
Early models had low velocity cannons, which sure does suck  
Like in early 109s, which had MG-FF, if I now spell it right...

If you compare Hispano (brits lil' 20mm toy) to 12.7mm Browning M2, I think you would see Hispano have better range and so on..
Hispano has very good punch in it, which will shoot those 20mm shells very far away, even longer distances than 12.7mm bullet, because it has more mass in it, with closely same velocity as 12.7mm.
20mm also has better effect than 12.7mm from long distances, when it has bigger mass and explosive.

What do you do with bullet that just stucks into the airframe, making little hole, if you can have a bullet which makes bigger explosion while in that little hole  

About ranges and other blahblah.. you can have a look on tank guns.
Which makes up for more effect/range, 37mm or 50mm?
or 50mm vs. 75mm?

(why do we do bigger than .50 caliber ammunition then, if .50 caliber is more effective from range than 20mm?)
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Mr.ED

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #61 on: December 31, 1999, 07:14:00 AM »
"Mr.Ed, did I hear you saying zero, what model, early or late?"

Fishu,

Pappy didn't even get to the Pacific until mid 1944, and didn't start flying an F4U1D until they first were available, so I'm thinking it was at least an -6 model Zeke.

I liked your blah blah blah comment. I think we should wait until the modeling comes out. By now HTC know of the 50 cal concerns!

This thread is to long, I'm done here really!

Mr.Ed
Pony Pilot
Knight
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-towd_

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #62 on: December 31, 1999, 01:48:00 PM »
thanks for the compliment hang. you drive me nuts somtimes but your right (have noticed you duke it out till the cows come home also odds be dambed also tho)

and yes i whine to much ,yep i said it. i had a devorce a few months ago (no excuse) and havent really been myself. but lifes gettin better for me and the dog. so i will try to put a sock in it online (no promises)

thanks for the kind attention.

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Offline Hangtime

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #63 on: January 12, 2002, 01:10:16 PM »
All a long time ago.... remember when it was so much fun?
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The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

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Offline Fatty

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2002, 01:14:38 PM »
I can't believe we let this touchy feely twit into our squad.
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Offline K West

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2002, 01:40:14 PM »
"remember when it was so much fun?"


 Still is imo.  I'm finding many good fights still.  Both in the MA as well as the CT.  Sure the HO's are up as some folks can't seem to get over that hump and actually try some ACM. And yes I've seen more pork&auger-suicide dweebs than there are kernels of corn in pigsh&t.  But I  take the kill award anyway ;)   And often my online time is improved immensely if I just squelch channel one. Unless I truly want to hear bad ebonics, requests for fellatio, suggestions on the use of a vibrator and the inevitable family tree analysis of some peoples mothers. :)

 Westy
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Offline Hajo

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2002, 01:45:00 PM »
As always it appears what ever has most recently shot someone down....or they couldn't catch after engaging automatically becomes "The Uber Plane" of the moment.

The P51 accelerates poorly.......must be kept fast to ensure survivability in any engagement, and good SA is required to fly an energy fighter...which they all were by the way.  I don't recall reading about very many engagements at 50 feet near an enemy base that lasted for very long :eek:
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- The Flying Circus -

Offline Hangtime

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2002, 01:46:16 PM »
... b.b.....buu.... but touchin and feelin fattys mom is WHY i'm in the squad... (wails)  RIIIGHT???

FATTY'S MOM LOVES ME!!  

*sniff*

... well, me and burritos. All beef burritos. And I like burying the Burrito.  We're both happy.
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The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline J_A_B

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #68 on: January 12, 2002, 02:07:34 PM »
P-51D uber?   That's a laugh.

I fly it a lot.  When I DO fly something else, then go back to the P-51, I am amazed by several things:

The P-51D accelerates like crap.  A 109 or a P-38 or a Spit feels like a rocket compared to the P-51D.

The P-51D also climbs like crap.  This is a plane that even a Jug can almost keep up with in sustained climb.  Add a DT or some bombs and it becomes a total pig.

The P-51D really can't sustain a turn.  It turns well until its speed bleeds off, but if you get slow with an opponent you're in trouble.

Finally, the P-51 stalls very easily.  Spits, 38's, F4U's, all of them are MUCH less prone to stalling than the P-51D.  

Yeah, it's so uber.  LOL!    It's no more "uber" than a G-10 or 190D-9 or LA7 or N1K2 or Spit or any of the other common planes in AH.

What the P-51D has going for it is a superb combination of strengths--good highspeed maneuverability combined with good zoom climb and E retention.  Unlike the FW's, which bleed E at high speeds, or the 109's which can't maneuver when fast, the P-51 can STAY fast and be effective at the same time.   Finally, the P-51 has enough fuel to stay airborne a long time, which is important in AH's fuel-multiplied world.  This fact alone probably contributes to alot of P-51D usage.

But get slow in it and you're dead.  A low/slow P-51 is probably the easiest kill in AH.  Even a 202 can better protect itself from a higher/faster enemy.

J_A_B
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Offline Kieran

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2002, 05:19:15 PM »
Jab-

Place the post in the context of two years ago and you would understand the thread better. Back then it was untouchable when flown correctly. Somewhere in the 1.30 to 1.35 range it was pretty much a one-plane sim.
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Offline Wilbus

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2002, 05:54:13 PM »
Haven't read any replies just your post Hangtime. The P51 is a very very good plane in most aspects, if not all, good armement, climb (unless heavy on fuel of course) fast etc. It does turn well, very well sometimes specially with a notch or two flaps. To say it outturns Spits and similair is just plain BS from the people who say it, my guess it's some newbie niki/spit who just don't know jack **** about ACM.

It's a Dora basicly, slightly better climb and turn, guns wich are easier to hit with, but in number of hits make less dammage.

I, atleast not lately, have heard anything about Uber stang, nor do I hope to hear it since it is NOT an Uber plane. Speed alone does nt make a plane Uber.

See you in my Dora sights soon ;)
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Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Hangtime

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2002, 06:50:42 PM »
Rgr that Wilbus.. this tread dates back at least 2 years.. was using the new BBS search engine, and figured I'd revist an old tread that highlights the old AH animosity between LW and Allied concerns and eventualy lead to the first 'Rumble'.

I wonder what became of some of the personalities from that old thread... "the good old days" :)

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The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline hblair

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2002, 07:32:24 PM »
LOL, The pony D of two years ago with the planes in that set, etc. was a different animal entirely. It was truly a dominant plane in its day. Then along came Big Blue to become the despised "uber machine" some months later.

Ahh, the good old days. :)
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Offline Karnak

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2002, 07:45:26 PM »
Guys, remember that when this was posted AH was in v1.00 the v1.04 flight model that allowed TnB aircraft to do more than a few break turns was still 4 versions away and the planeset consisted of:

B-17G
B-26B
Bf109F-4
Bf109G-2
Bf109G-6
Bf109G-10
C.205
C-47A
F4U-1C
F4U-1D
Fw190A-8
La-5FN
N1K2-J
P-51D
Spitfire Mk IX

In that context, the P-51D was, IMO, clearly the best fighter with the only real threat to it being the Bf109G-10.
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Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Wilbus

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... in defense of the Mustang.....
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2002, 09:24:50 PM »
yes indeed it was! I thought this was a new thred though, didn't check date :)
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Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.
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