Author Topic: Anniversary of Columbine High School shooting (Read 2210 times)

Sixpence · « **Reply #60 on:** April 21, 2004, 12:19:30 PM »

I got no argument with capitalism or profit Rip. But you make it sound like it is something new. Didn't we live by the same rules through the 40's,50's,60's and 70's? We worked the 40 hour work week then and we seemed to do just fine. And if we had to work more than 40 hours we were compensated for it by O.T. Both parents did not have to work, and there was a parent at home to help the kids with their homework, drive them to baseball practice, teach them morals, and keep them out of trouble. As a matter of fact, alot of people on the BB want to return to "the good ol days". Why do we have to work 80 hours a week to do the same now? You asked me to read what you C&P'd, and I did(as you can see I replied already), but did you read the links I posted? Read the last one, the one that is preparing you for the new 50-60 hour standard work week.

gofaster · « **Reply #61 on:** April 21, 2004, 12:24:25 PM »

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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Recently, I visited a large timber operation. I was fascinated by a huge machine that transformed sawdust into usable board.

I had always thought that all you could do with sawdust was fill broad jump or pole vault pits with it or burn it.

Profit was the motivation for developing this ecologically sound and expensive machine.

Actually, I would think the ecological movement would be the one behind that, seeing as how they're the ones pushing to keep the timber companies off public lands and "coercing" the timber companies to develop alternate ways to make usable board. I would think it would be cheaper to cut a tree and shape it than to reconstitute sawdust particles.

Another point to discuss: people and income. Anybody remember the case where the mom worked as a director for a hospital and left her baby in the car because she was too preoccupied with the hospital's business affairs? The baby died after sitting in the hot car for hours. She ended up quitting her job (or taking a different work-at-home position, I can't remember which) to spend time with her (remaining) children.

I'm all for profit. Its the only thing that gets me out of bed, into the shower, and into the office every morning. Otherwise, I'd just walk around in stinky clothes all morning and play Aces High.

CavemanJ · « **Reply #62 on:** April 21, 2004, 12:28:47 PM »

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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Quote
Originally posted by vorticon
do you have kids? [/i]
yes.

can you honestly say that you know there every move?

Yes, and when they are of teenage years, I will as well.

do you beleive they they should have a tracking collar on them and give them a breathalyzer test every time they enter the house?

I will teach them about responsibility, going to partys and drinking while a minor is not responsible. If they do, they will be grounded.

do you know what happens at school?
Yes I do. They tell me.

do you really think they actually tell you everything that happened?

I believe that instilling in them at their young age about honesty and trust, and about a parent being a best friend, that there will be no need to lie.

heres a question...

you kid is 16 and is going to a party on a friday night...he's previously got it set up that hes going to sleep over... at this party he

a) drinks beer till he passes out or the booze runs out
b) has 1 or 2 beers to look "cool" but thats it
c) sits around playing playstation till 11 then straight to bed...
d) actually he went to his girlfriends house drank himself stupid and had unprotected sex with her...

the correct answers are A and D and trust me no matter how "good" your kid is (even if hes a nerd) will have drank beer till he passes out before there 18...unless your a mormon or a JW

My kids at that age will be much too busy to be going to parties, trust me on this one. Your life may have been like that, and mine was, but I'm determined to learn from my parents mistakes, that is, leaving me to roam free as a teenager. I will be their best friend, one that they can tell anything. I will be the guy they have their first beer with, underaged or not...I will be the guy that they'd rather be with than partying with a bunch of teens. And if the party is one that doesn't involved getting drunk, I will be the father that my kids will want to invite to the party (well, thats my goal, might be unreachable, but you have to shoot for the sun if you want to go to the moon...) I will teach them about sexual diseases and teach them to protect themselves. I will also teach them about themselves being responsible for their own actions, and thus suffering the consequences of their own actions. I am Parent. Something that is a lost art in our culture today. [/B]

Preach it brother Rip! I agree with everything you've said here.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #63 on:** April 21, 2004, 12:29:17 PM »

Sixpence, to be honest, I'm tired of people blaming others for their predictaments they're in financially. With the best colleges in the world, the opportunities for education (Pell grants, etc.) anyone that has to work more than 40 hours has no excuse and no finger to point to other than their own lack of will to further themselves in their respective career, or look outside their career for one that brings in more income. I'm old school, and if I could do it with nothing but the clothes on my back in 1979, then anyone can.

Now back to the topic:
Granted, I am blaming the parents for the Columbine event thus "pointing a finger", but I point the finger at the lack of taking full responsibility for ones cummulative actions over time, that being a nurturing process...I don't think people are born evil, I believe they're nurtured evil, and that can come in the form of lack of parental supervision and from elements that reside outside the family circle.

gofaster · « **Reply #64 on:** April 21, 2004, 12:42:11 PM »

As a coach of a team of teenage girls, I can tell you right now that none of the parents of those girls knows 100% what their kids are doing (including the two coaches whose daughters play on the team). They try, but things don't quite get communicated 100% of the time. There have been instances where I've been casually speaking to a parent and mentioned injuries or player difficulties or upcoming events or opportunities and the parent(s) have responded along the lines of "No, she didn't tell me about that...."

I was at a retirement party once and was speaking with a guy who was taking his house into the age of computers by wiring everything into a PC system. Fibre optic cables ran through the walls of every room. When the mailman opened the mailbox, the computer would sound a chime over the intercom system. Music could be piped to individual rooms. Even the burglar alarm was wired into it. The alarm would be sounded whenever a window was opened, including the ones in his two teenage daughters' bedrooms. Nobody could get in unnoticed, and nobody could get out.

Sixpence · « **Reply #65 on:** April 21, 2004, 12:51:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort

Sixpence, to be honest, I'm tired of people blaming others for their predictaments they're in financially.

Rip, this isn't about a financial predictament, it's about why parents have less time for their kids and having to work twice as much to accomplish the same thing as we did years ago.

With the best colleges in the world, the opportunities for education (Pell grants, etc.) anyone that has to work more than 40 hours has no excuse

Rip, that sounds good, but that is not the way it is. It's alot harder to find that job that gives you the financial freedom to work 40 hours.(BTW, the pell grant is next on the chopping block)

and if I could do it with nothing but the clothes on my back in 1979, then anyone can.

Rip, the same could be said about 39, 49, 59, or 69. But now you have to work twice the hours to do it. Not only are we passing on twice the debt on to our kids, we are passing on twice the work.

I don't think people are born evil, I believe they're nurtured evil, and that can come in the form of lack of parental supervision and from elements that reside outside the family circle.

I could not agree more.

gofaster · « **Reply #66 on:** April 21, 2004, 01:27:13 PM »

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Originally posted by Sixpence
I don't think people are born evil, I believe they're nurtured evil, and that can come in the form of lack of parental supervision and from elements that reside outside the family circle.

I could not agree more.

There are those who are born evil. Human behavior is a complicated thing, and I believe that part of your personality is genetically coded into you by your parents.

I think that's why Labrador retrievers are known as happy-go-lucky dogs, whereas rottweilers aren't a species you want to mess around with.

lazs2 · « **Reply #67 on:** April 21, 2004, 02:33:42 PM »

gofaster... I really would like to explore your theory that apparently teachers are different than everyone else and the only thing stopping them from murdering our children is that .... thay are not allowed to have firearms at school?

seems if they were that unstable they would just smuggle one in or.... that before all the laws were passed we would have seen lots of teacher/child shootings... maybe daily.

perhaps teachers are different than every other U.S. citizen but... for ordinary, not special, citizens, only a small percentage have an interest in getting a concealed carry permit. then they are trained and turned loose. These concealed carry citizens are the most law abiding group in the nation... they are extra polite and have taken severe beatings wihtout drawing their gun and fireing..

So how would a teacher who applied be any different? do you have proof of this or is this just your "feelings" that they would be so different from every other frigging human being on the planet?

lazs

gofaster · « **Reply #68 on:** April 21, 2004, 02:42:36 PM »

The fact that teachers are ordinary citizens is the precise reason why they shouldn't carry firearms.

Eagler · « **Reply #69 on:** April 21, 2004, 02:43:32 PM »

rip

when they are little it is easy

when they hit 16, 17, 18 (some earlier) - they are not - even with "instilled" values - gl sir when that day comes

the parents take some of the responsibility, but the nutbag boys take the brunt - even with 24hr attention who is to say they wouldn't have pulled the same crap

some are born nutbags, others learn it and still others earn it ... glad they offluffied themselves, hate to have seen the media circus putting them on trial

lazs2 · « **Reply #70 on:** April 21, 2004, 02:56:33 PM »

gofaster... i guess I am missing the point then.. if all the data shows that "ordinary citizens" who have concealed carry permits are among the most law abiding and safest people in the world then how do you justify not allowing them to carry?

perhaps you have some data that shows how dangerous it is to allow concealed carry? if you do then handgun control ink... aka the brady bunch and finestein would love to see it as they are even more rabid than yu are but even they aren't dumb enough to suggest what you just did.

we really let those kids down at columbine... just one teacher who could do more than run away might have saved a lot of lives.

thank you for reminding us of how silly we were.

perhaps you would like to explain how airline pilots and sky marshals are killing people too now?

lazs

strk · « **Reply #71 on:** April 21, 2004, 04:31:14 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2

strk... two incidents that come to mind are the 96(i think) misssissippi school shooting where a 30/30 wielding student was confronted by a teacher who ran to his car and got his 45 and stopped the guy befor he could shoot more than a couple.. the shooter RAN AWAY and was chased down by the teacher and held fo the police... another is a law school (can't recall where but can look it up) where a 380 weilding student started shooting.. another student was armed and drew on him telling him to drop the gun... which HE DID. at that point it was a fistfight instead of continueing to be a shooting of sheep.

lazs

Man that second story has a lawyer joke in it somewhere. The first guy would get a felony charge today for having a gun in a school zone.

StabbyTheIcePic · « **Reply #72 on:** April 21, 2004, 04:40:49 PM »

I really cannot find an arguement against lazs's point. If they allow cops to have guns on the school grounds, why not teachers that have the permits and training. As long as they keep them concelled it should not interfer with class.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #73 on:** April 21, 2004, 04:40:56 PM »

Both boys were on medication for depression,

Obviously it was the parents/TV/music/video games' fault.
-SW

Sixpence · « **Reply #74 on:** April 21, 2004, 05:05:47 PM »

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Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
I really cannot find an arguement against lazs's point. If they allow cops to have guns on the school grounds, why not teachers that have the permits and training. As long as they keep them concelled it should not interfer with class.

Sure, as long as you don't mind raising taxes to pay for all this training and paying them accordingly. But I would think that you would find that most parents and teachers prefer to keeps guns out of the classroom, students or teachers.