Slamming the door shut on porkers...

[nopoop]

Originally posted by Leayme
I want the return of total war with all the ups and downs.

If we take out the fuel resources of a base or sector then you have to stoop down to the dirty job of flying supplies and building it back up.

Means you have to THINK about scrambling fighters to intercept a far ranging strike and if you don't then you pay the price in ordnance, fuel, troop and supply shortages.

I would like to see shortages in aircraft at fields that are being pounded or that are having thier factories levelled. Half or quarter loads of ammo instead of an unlimited supply when a field is in dire straits.

A more relistic timeline for hangers and other structures to be built back up.

Now will this appeal to all? No but it would make the game much more interesting and broaden it's player base.

Instead of this straight furball or Air Quake theme that is developing now.

Take a breath building battler. Adjustments will be made. It it ain't over, it's just begun.

If you have to fight in the meantime ??

Who knows, you just might enjoy it.

Stranger things have happened..

[Mugzeee]

quote:
 
Originally posted by Tumor

Nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you take off at a field thats being overwhelmed are they? Vulching, as underhanded as some think it is, is a natural piece of the base-capture pie. Your losing me.
  Reply by mugzeee
No nobody is holding a gun to my head. I am making the observation that attacking ground targets is almost totally ignored making de-acking and vulching priority #1

Originally posted by Tumor


where's the fun in 2-3 players being able to take a single field? And why should that be a standard in a game that attempts to integrate Air Combat and a Strategic war? A "horde" by the historical definition around here is hardly required to take a field, again, I've seen plenty. Guess I just don't get why some folks don't want to face defense.

  Reply by mugzeee
 
Firstly taking a base with 2 or 3 players is a thing of the past with the size of the towns in AH2 without even factoring in the porkage issue. With the town targets being like 3 times more than Ah1...the fuel porkage at supporting bases is more important than before.(buys the extra time needed to take down the larger towns)  Again you miss my point. The game used to be more multi faceted. Air to ground War, Air to Air, and attacking strategic factories, planning attacks at supporting fields to slow down the NME and so on. Think Sure we had to fight our way to the target sometimes. Sometimes we had to kill the last second risers on a base we were trying to capture. And sometimes we got in unscaved. The new AH2 is going to encourage parading light fighters to the nearest vulch fest like never before “Guess I just don't get why some folks don't want to face defense.”  Where was this philosophy when you needed to “Defend” your fuel bunkers?

Originally posted by Tumor

 
I just don't get it... how can a move made by HTC that encourages group activity be damaging to an entire squadron? It doesn't make sense unless your squad simply avoids fighting, which IMHO is the point of the game, as well as the inherent objective of a war-game-oriented squadron. Again, I keep seeing bases being taken by all sides, with massive ENDURING furballs going on in the process. Shoot me for enjoying what I would think is the point of Aces High, but thats just the way I see it.


  Reply by mugzeee

Of coarse you don’t get it. Otherwise you wouldn’t have replied to my reply the way you did in the first place.

Originally posted by Leayme
I want the return of total war with all the ups and downs.

If we take out the fuel resources of a base or sector then you have to stoop down to the dirty job of flying supplies and building it back up.

Means you have to THINK about scrambling fighters to intercept a far ranging strike and if you don't then you pay the price in ordnance, fuel, troop and supply shortages.

I would like to see shortages in aircraft at fields that are being pounded or that are having thier factories levelled. Half or quarter loads of ammo instead of an unlimited supply when a field is in dire straits.

A more relistic timeline for hangers and other structures to be built back up.

Now will this appeal to all? No but it would make the game much more interesting and broaden it's player base.

Instead of this straight furball or Air Quake theme that is developing now.

Well stated.
Its all about the "Thinking" game
Not much to think about with the current strat settings.
Just recruit about 40 countrymen and furball your brains out on the same map for a week at a time with FAR less resets.
Next thing you know...somebody will suggest watermelon canning the reset thingy completely. Which is fine if you like that sort of thing. But i assure you the Majority play with the reset in mind. Otherwise...why would they ever consider loading bombs or flying a bomber?

[Kev367th]

Lets face it, if you fly a short legged fighter like a Spit the 2x burn kills ya. Yes you can take DTs but then you rate of climb suffers. Not good if scrambling to intercept raid.
Fuel system needs to go back to what is was, all this no fuel below 75% is absolute ^^$$%&**%^. Just as well in the real war we couldn't go below 75%, guess neither side suffered from fuel shortages.
This 'new' fuel model has done nothing but encourage hoards of P51s at astronaut levels. After all 75% in a Pony even on 2x burn takes ya a long way. Another kick in the a55 to short legged fighters. Hell lets just call it Ponies High, and get it over with.
Porking is part of the game, the only way to slow down the Rook hoard is to nail their barracks and fuel, at least only their barracks now.
Next we won't be able to kill hangers, because that stops people upping, just make all ground targets unkillable now, thats the way its going.

[Zanth]

Far as I understand it, and please correct me if I am likely wrong, but MA is  not the "real war" arena.  That is the honor of the CT arena.

[6GunUSMC]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Lets face it, if you fly a short legged fighter like a Spit the 2x burn kills ya. Yes you can take DTs but then you rate of climb suffers. Not good if scrambling to intercept raid.
Fuel system needs to go back to what is was, all this no fuel below 75% is absolute ^^$$%&**%^. Just as well in the real war we couldn't go below 75%, guess neither side suffered from fuel shortages.
This 'new' fuel model has done nothing but encourage hoards of P51s at astronaut levels. After all 75% in a Pony even on 2x burn takes ya a long way. Another kick in the a55 to short legged fighters. Hell lets just call it Ponies High, and get it over with.
Porking is part of the game, the only way to slow down the Rook hoard is to nail their barracks and fuel, at least only their barracks now.
Next we won't be able to kill hangers, because that stops people upping, just make all ground targets unkillable now, thats the way its going.

Kev! I was wondering if I was the only one who "got it".  The 75% fuel was a concession for the STUPID 2X fuel burn multiplier.  Strategy is now artificially dictated by these unrealistic constraints.  This is a good thing for the turn-and-burn furballers, however to those of us who are concerned with winning the war it is just plain crazy... In a war you have 3 basic jobs you want to do. 1 is to kill people to cut their numbers down, another is to break things to deny their use/usefuleness to the enemy and finally to take whats left of the heap of rubble from them!  That, gentlemen is how wars are WON!

The way the game has changed this is becoming nothing but a big-oscared Dueling Arena!  Bombers no longer have an effective role outside of bombing a city, hq or a carrier.

[nopoop]

Originally posted by Mugzeee
Its all about the "Thinking" game

True. Every fight I take part in is the thinking game. I live for that kind of thought. It's always different. Never the same.

Now as far as winning the war that never ends ??

You get a horde together and you roll up the map.

Your going to tell me now that it isn't so ??

I thought not.

And then..

You can do it ALL over again.

WHAT FUN !!!

I'm begining to think that the vast majority of AHII whiners are land grabbers. And the thought that they might have to vary there approach to map hording throws them into a tizzy.

It's no surprise that dealing with things that change very rapidly would cause problems.

Don't wanna bump the apple cart and encourage thought ??

LOL

Oxymoron there Mugs. But you work it. With alittle practice in the new game you'll be land grabbing with the best of'um.

Perish the "thought"

[Kev367th]

Hi 6Guns.
Yup agree, totally.
Not being able to attrit the enemas resources is totally stupid.
2x fuel burn on a P51 still goes a long, long way. So if the idea was to balnce the never less than 75% fuel availability - it doesn't work. It only kills short legged fighters.

nopoop I agree with a few things, but - I like flying the short legged fighters. Why should any class of planes be 'penalised' to allegedly help the gameplay, which IMHO it isn't.

Actually thinking about it, if HT wants to make it a furball only game get rid of all strats, towns, HQ, etc etc. As 6Guns said buffs have a limited use since this (cough) innovation.

[nopoop]

Actually Kev with the new fuel porking limit short legged fighters are a viable alternative where they were worthless with the old fuel pork criteria.

I'm a short legged fighter kind of guy.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Tumor
Is the best thing HTC's done for game-play in years!!  I just love how the building battlers have turned to the "Little train that could" approach.  Sadly, the choo-choo just aint making it over the hill.  Furballs, effort and teamwork have become the norm!

Thankyou HTC

  Teamwork my prettythang
Hording hording and more hording have become the norm. Doesnt take much teamwork to horde in fact it doesnt take ANY teamwork to horde
I see how the massive furball lovers  love this, as most dont care how many bases they loose.
For the rest of us that dont like HUGE furballs and/or give a damn about getting steamrolled it being forced into a position where we can do nothing to stop the horde onslaught sucks.. big time.
 Add to that, this garbage dump of a map and it only makes it worse
As was proven tonght killing off all frontline barracks did zero to slow the horde down let alone stop them.

Current setup ailienates a large section of players by forcing them into a style of play they neither want nor enjoy

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by ALF
Withthe new fuel burn feature...fuel porking would be three times the b1tch it was b4.  If we had the old model you would NEVER see 1/2 the planeset beause of its 'short legs'.  Only problem is that a valid stratigic target is now useless, thus moving more into the air-quake mode.

Perhaps if fuel was a two-three pronged issue:

porking field fuel would only effect available fuel if the road/bridges leading too the base were destroyed and/or the refinery in the 'zone' was at 50% or less or something

It would require a rework of some targets, but I think it would prevent the easY fuel pork, while maintaining it as a strtegi target

Now if they are able to do something about side numbers balancing, this I could buy into.
Also add to it perhaps making it take like 40 troops in the maproom in an X amount of time to capture.
Now THAT would promote teamwork as well as make it harder be it just a bit for the mass hordes to steamroll everything in sight

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Tumor
Ahh... but in "war", how often could 4 or 5 suicidal pilots pork an entire front worth of enemy airfields all by themselves?

 

I beleive the Japanese had something they called Kamakazi.

But I still maintain the intentional suicide porkers while they do exist. And yes I have seen some also. But, they are very few and far between and that most of the perceived suicides witnessed were the result of the feild ack doing its job.
Late perhaps but it did its job.

Ny comparison. the divebombing heavy bombers (Lancs, B-17s) Are a much larger problem particularly from a realism standpoint as well as an annoying one. then these so called suiside porkers

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by kevykev56
What we have is 3-4 ant trails between bases and Air Quake in between. You are correct teamwork has to prevail to achieve the desired "Strategic" effect, but as you put it in "war" we didnt have 3-5 guys that would take out an entire field
However the way things stand today it is Air Quake, If you want to join a mission and bomb some targets to slow the enemy you have 15minutes for the effects to wear off. So whats the point?

 I enjoy the fights, I also enjoy being a very accurate A2G attacker. After I bomb I like to mix it up and fight my way back to base. Call this a whine call it what you will It is just me voicing my opinion of the percieved situation of the game today. I know it will change it has to, It appears to me more are unhappy about the strat today than there were people unhappy about the porking.

RHIN0

Actually there was a film floating around a while back of a small group of american fighters doing exactly that.
Hitting a feild. Often after escort duty fighters would attack airfeild and other targets of opportunity.
So yea. they did have people doing it. Maybe not 4-5 but then again we dont have a couple thousand aircraft in the air either
but yea, it was done.
Air quake is a good analogy.

I feel as you do about A2g attack. though I will hit a feild to slow em down. like you after I bomb I lke to stick around and mix it up and try to fight my way back to base. sometimes I succeed often I dont. but it sure is fun as hell trying.

  On another note. both in AHI and AHII Ive seen teamwork used to take bases. But its really VERY rare.
You can usually recocgnise it by the surprisingly few numbers used to capture it, Maybe 10-15 at the most
 Most of the time its not real teamwork but rather just a horde of people and a couple folks either flying goons cause they see the crowd or deciding to bring back a goon at the last minute.
Swarm in with rediculously overwhelming numbers,kill ack.blow up or strafe buildings and vulch ahoy and yelling at each other for stealing vulches till the troops arrive.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by nopoop
True. Every fight I take part in is the thinking game. I live for that kind of thought. It's always different. Never the same.

.

It's no surprise that dealing with things that change very rapidly would cause problems.

Don't wanna bump the apple cart and encourage thought ??

LOL

Oxymoron there Mugs. But you work it. With alittle practice in the new game you'll be land grabbing with the best of'um.

Perish the "thought"

Actually the people who like more then just the furball  or just the fight in front of them take the thinking game a step farther. Cause they still have to think about the fight and they've added also thinking about whats going on on the map as well and not just whats going on in the immediate vacinity.

We all..well most of us cept maybe the horders enjoy the thinking part of the fight. Some of us just like to think a little more

[Kev367th]

OK then Spit carrys 1 x 300l tank = 80 gallons (approx)
P51 carrys 2 x75 gallon = 150 gallons

Take a guess who the 2x fuel burn rate hits the most, thats not even including the internal tanks!!!

Gone are the days of taking Spits etc on any 'long range" escorts.

I mgiht be mistaken but it seems the main contigent who complain about porking are the Rooks. Couldn't be because it slows down their hoard now, could it? Must have be a real bummer to log on Sundays with 200+ players and find no fuel or troops at your front line fields.

Looking again at the original post, 'building battling' is part of the game I believe, or HT wouldn't have included that part of the gameplay - of course I could be wrong.

[SlapShot]

I mgiht be mistaken but it seems the main contigent who complain about porking are the Rooks.

You are mistaken.

The people that have been consistently vocal on fuel porkage, no matter what country they fly for, are also the ones who don't participate in the "horde" du jour.