Author Topic: Saw moors film  (Read 4743 times)

Offline DiabloTX

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9592
Saw moors film
« Reply #105 on: June 27, 2004, 01:16:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
Ok, found one.  And it was in Hitchin's article all along.  Moore claims that the bin Laden family was cleared for flights out of the US by Bush right after 9/11.  Wrong.  Richard Clarke claims that he and he alone approved that act.

 

Rest of the article here

Oh wait, Moore didn't have time to edit the film after Clarke's admission.  Wrong.  He had 4 weeks to do it.  Some major films take less than that for primary photography.  

Ok, back to digging...
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline capt. apathy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4240
      • http://www.moviewavs.com/cgi-bin/moviewavs.cgi?Bandits=danger.wav
Saw moors film
« Reply #106 on: June 27, 2004, 01:19:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
I hate using absolutes. It would be interesting to find documentaries where the finished film was in direct contrast of the starting points/ideas.

Regards,
Nuke aka SaburoS :D


changing your bias doesn't mean you don't have one.

I suppose you could make something without bias.  but nobody would watch it, because it would have to be a subject that nobody gives a crap about.

if a topic is worth investigating, people have opinions about it, and if you have an opinion it effects how you present the work, you tend to ignore or discount evidence that 'doesn't fit' with the way you see the world, while giving undue weight to things that justify your beliefs.  it's just the way we work, you couldn't avoid it if you tried.

take this BBS as an example.  most Dems (myself included) have no problem seeing these accusations of Bush as true.  speaking for myself I didn't much trust him to begin with, and a lot of the statements and reasons (or lack of) for the Iraq war,  combined with his VP's involvement in a company that is profiting from it, and receiving preferential treatment, only goes to reaffirm what we already suspected.

while the republicans think he's a good guy (I guess), and see any allegations of scandal or immoral activity as so below the man that they find it ridiculous and not worthy of considering, let alone actually investigating.

I thinks the Reps are more than a bit naive, where this administrations conduct is concerned, but thats my bias, to my way of thinking if they where capable of clear logical thinking we wouldn't even be having this discussion, because they'd be seeing things my way.

Offline Steve

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6728
Saw moors film
« Reply #107 on: June 27, 2004, 01:28:09 AM »
Quote
No documentary is ever neutral.


From Miriam-Webster  

Documentary
Quote
of, relating to, or employing documentation in literature or art; broadly : FACTUAL, OBJECTIVE



Objective:

expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations .


handsomehunk

Offline Nash

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11705
      • http://sbm.boomzoom.org/
Saw moors film
« Reply #108 on: June 27, 2004, 01:28:43 AM »
Well... At that point Clarke was the red-headed step child in there. Nobody would meet with the guy, let alone I think, allow him to make a unilateral decision to allahsudden let 100+ Saudis leave the US.

"Mr. President... we have on radar numerous planes which appear to be heading towards the Atlantic."

Bush: "huh?"

"Nevermind Mr. President, we recieved word that Clarke said it's cool."

Bush: "oh okay."

Btw... I would HOPE that at least some of the actions of the Bush administration were done with Bush's knowledge. At the very least, Clarke was a member of the Bush administration. If Bush was unaware of a couple of dozen of AC containing arabs beating a hasty retreat through a nation-wide no fly zone, I would want to know why his staff kept that info from him.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2004, 01:34:27 AM by Nash »

Offline Nash

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11705
      • http://sbm.boomzoom.org/
Saw moors film
« Reply #109 on: June 27, 2004, 01:32:14 AM »
Put up or shut up Steve.... and stow yer dictionary.

Doesn't suprise me you had to look it up (all the rage on this BBS allahsudden... which I applaud... but the next big leap is to actually use the new words you learn in a meaningful way)

Offline DiabloTX

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9592
Saw moors film
« Reply #110 on: June 27, 2004, 01:33:57 AM »
This isn't even worth the time anymore.  

See ya in another thread.
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline Nash

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11705
      • http://sbm.boomzoom.org/
Saw moors film
« Reply #111 on: June 27, 2004, 01:36:50 AM »
Yeah... You finally found something you think was a lie. So you blurted it out.

Bet heck if you actually have to say why.

Alla effort....

Yet, you demand 100X from the rest of us.

Fine.... later.

Offline Dead Man Flying

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6301
Saw moors film
« Reply #112 on: June 27, 2004, 01:43:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX And tsk tsk to you for not even adding anything to the debate even remotely intellectual.


Nonsense.  It's much easier to prove a negative than to disprove a negative.  Welcome to the wonderful world of positivism and null hypotheses.  My contribution to this debate is to call you on such a silly debating tactic.

Null hypothesis:  Michael Moore tells the truth at all times.

Alternative Hypothesis:  Michael Moore does not tell the truth at all times.

Proceed from there.  Go forth, m'boy, and make a fool of Nash!

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline AKcurly

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1509
Saw moors film
« Reply #113 on: June 27, 2004, 02:01:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
If its all lies then why isnt he sued?


Nilsen, I'm not a Bush fan and haven't seen the movie (but I have viewed several of the teasers).  It's safe to say Bush's remarks were usually taken out of context.  Given Bush's propensity for making flip, funny responses to stupid questions, he gave Moore many opportunities to quote him out of context.

There's nothing illegal at all about doing this.  It's a little game all political activists play ... ;(

curly

Offline _Schadenfreude_

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2036
Saw moors film
« Reply #114 on: June 27, 2004, 02:16:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying

 Go forth, m'boy, and make a fool of Nash!

-- Todd/Leviathn


hmmm know who my money is on when it comes to making a fool of someone.....

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Saw moors film
« Reply #115 on: June 27, 2004, 03:32:26 AM »
At the beggining of the movie Farenheit 911 it is stated that all recounts would have shown Gore to be the winner in Florida.

Thats a clear lie. In fact full recounts done after the elections show Bush winning the state.

Does anyone care?

Offline rpm

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15661
Saw moors film
« Reply #116 on: June 27, 2004, 03:47:27 AM »
So Steve, a documentary made by 2 different people on different sides of a subject (i.e. a Palestinian documentary on the West Bank and an Islaeli documentary on the West Bank) only 1 is true? You know better. It is one person's perspective of a subject.

While it may not perfectly fit your textbook definition of a documentary it is well within boundries of what could be called one. I'm sure it fits what any film award would define as a documentary. I understand Lion's Gate isn't promoting it as one however, prefering to call it an OpEd piece. But Toad mentioned that several posts ago...please try to keep up.
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline rpm

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15661
Saw moors film
« Reply #117 on: June 27, 2004, 03:50:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
At the beggining of the movie Farenheit 911 it is stated that all recounts would have shown Gore to be the winner in Florida.

Thats a clear lie. In fact full recounts done after the elections show Bush winning the state.

Does anyone care?

Care to post a link? To my understanding a full recount was never done per Florida law.

Once again I bring up Unprecedented: The 2000 Presidential Election . If you have not seen this movie, you need to.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2004, 03:55:56 AM by rpm »
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline GRUNHERZ

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13413
Saw moors film
« Reply #118 on: June 27, 2004, 03:53:35 AM »
Here is one..

http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/04/04/florida.recount.01/


"The Miami Herald and USA Today conducted a comprehensive review of 64,248 "undercounted" ballots in Florida's 67 counties that ended last month.

Their count showed that Bush's razor-thin margin of 537 votes -- certified in December by the Florida Secretary of State's office -- would have tripled to 1,665 votes if counted according to standards advocated by his Democratic rival, former Vice President Al Gore. "

Offline rpm

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15661
Saw moors film
« Reply #119 on: June 27, 2004, 04:03:22 AM »
Great link! Thanks!
Quote
The newspapers' review also discovered that canvassing boards in Palm Beach and Broward counties threw out hundreds of ballots that had marks that were no different from ballots deemed to be valid.

The papers concluded that Gore would be in the White House today if those ballots had been counted.


My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.