Author Topic: Vets speak out about Kerry  (Read 4544 times)

Offline Sandman

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Vets speak out about Kerry
« Reply #150 on: July 07, 2004, 02:58:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Yes, but the Geneva Convention banned them in 1925.


We don't want to mention that... someone might get the idea that the U.S. violated that convention. ;)
sand

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #151 on: July 07, 2004, 02:59:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Well, hello Martlet. Didn't mean to kick over the stone you were hiding under.


Then watch where you're walking.

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #152 on: July 07, 2004, 03:07:19 PM »
Check your figures again Scholz...surf the net.  Some of the documents of Saddam's regime have provided the most damning evidence against him.  One document recovered which will be used in his trial was an order to military units which stated that all Kurdish men between the ages of 15 and 70 must be killed after all available information had been wrung from them.  Eye-witnesses to these massacres say that Iraqi troops killed men, women, and small children.

Sounds like genocide to me.

As evidence continues to come to light, the estimates of the numbers of his victims over the last 24 years continues to be revised UPWARD.  Total numbers may run as high as one million.

Explain to me again WHY he deserved to remain in power.

Offline Krusher

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« Reply #153 on: July 07, 2004, 03:10:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
*lol* Well I'm really not interested in your "estimates". Iran claims they lost only 200,000 lives. No one really knows. Live with it moron.



Telegraph.co.uk, UK
a million people - most of them Iranians - died in the Iran-Iraq war. The remains of identified soldiers are still being found. ...

infoplease encyclopedia
Estimates of the number of dead range up to 1.5 million.

 
the fact that you would even consider 200,000 a good estimate is BS

Offline Krusher

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« Reply #154 on: July 07, 2004, 03:11:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
"The Iran-Iraq War lasted just short of eight years and resulted in catastrophic destruction in both countries. Because both Iran and Iraq used irregular military units, attacked civilian populations, and played down their own losses while playing up those of their opponents, reliable casualty figures do not exist. For example, Iran claimed to have lost 200,000 or fewer of its own citizens, while Iraq claimed to have killed 800,000 Iranians. Neutral estimates come closer to the Iranian claim but are uncertain. Because of different battlefield techniques, Iraq’s deaths were probably about half those suffered by Iran. The total number of people killed almost certainly exceeds 300,000. Wounded and captured soldiers push the casualty total over one million, and some estimates of total casualties exceed two million."

"Casualties" are not the same as "dead". Casualties includes wounded.


You believe what you want.. you always do.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #155 on: July 07, 2004, 03:14:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Explain to me again WHY he deserved to remain in power.


You get the government you deserve?

It's a harsh judgement, no question, but I would have felt a lot better about the whole thing if the U.S. were in there to help the Iraqi people take back their country rather than go in and do it for them.
sand

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #156 on: July 07, 2004, 03:16:28 PM »
Not that I care either way, but I did find several sources that stated over a million killed.

And several that said over 500,000 Killed.

And several that said over 300,000 killed.

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #157 on: July 07, 2004, 03:23:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
300,000 to 500,000 are the intelligent estimates. The 1,000,000+ estimates are the morons who also count wounded.


Are you implying that Encyclopedia of the Orient  might not be a reliable source?

:D :D :D

Offline Krusher

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« Reply #158 on: July 07, 2004, 03:28:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
300,000 to 500,000 are the intelligent estimates. The 1,000,000+ estimates are the morons who also count wounded.


thats still more than your original post

I can point to a family that lives next to my mother who lost 3 sons themselves.


They found a warehouse in Iraq that had the remains of 300 + that were never returned.  A mass grave has been found that may contain hundreds more prisoners of the war who were executed..

again believe whatever you want moron

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #159 on: July 07, 2004, 03:30:56 PM »
That would be a valid argument Sandman IF the populous had the power and the means to evict him.  What could a largely disarmed Shi'ite population do against the well-armed, trained, and fanatical Republican Guard (i.e. the Iraqi SS) and Saddam's secret police (i.e. the Iraqi Gestapo)?

By the way, if you have ever wondered why so many Middle Eastern countries have patterned their governments after that of Nazi Germany you might want to read up on the history and influence of this man on that region's politics:

Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini

He was the godfather of several modern Middle Eastern leaders;  Gamal Abdel Nasser, Saddam Hussein, and Yassir Arafat, to name a few.  It is safe to say that few modern leaders of that region have had as large an influence on the development of its politics.  His followers have been directly and indirectly involved in the radicalization of politics and the assassination or intimidation of moderate Muslim leaders, including Prince Faisal, who made the mistake of issuing statements supportive of the Balfour declaration.

His legacy has been the proliferation of Nazi-style regimes throughout the Middle East, of which Saddam's was one.

Offline Krusher

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« Reply #160 on: July 07, 2004, 03:31:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Liar.


you certainly are...

btw f*** off

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #161 on: July 07, 2004, 03:52:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
That would be a valid argument Sandman IF the populous had the power and the means to evict him.  What could a largely disarmed Shi'ite population do against the well-armed, trained, and fanatical Republican Guard (i.e. the Iraqi SS) and Saddam's secret police (i.e. the Iraqi Gestapo)?


I dunno... they seem to be doing well enough to kill at least one U.S. soldier per day.
sand

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #162 on: July 07, 2004, 03:58:56 PM »
The Republican Guard was not a conscript force.  The regualar Iraqi army units were, but they were nowhere nearly as well armed or trained as the Republican Guard, whose main job had always been to defend Saddam's regime, which is not the same as serving one's country.  The leaders of the Republican Guard were either relatives of Saddam or his staunchest supporters.  The officers of the regular army were members of the Ba'ath Party.

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #163 on: July 07, 2004, 04:33:31 PM »
Sure there are protests...led by former Ba'ath Party members and some Sunni supporters.  Some of the very people who supported his murderous regime.  Should we turn Iraq back over to their control?  If you notice, few of these demonstrations in support of Saddam are taking place in areas populated by Shi'ite Muslims, who just happen to make up the vast majority of Iraqis.

There are still plenty of ex-Nazis and neo-Nazis who believe Hitler was right and that the Holocaust never happened.  Should Germany be turned back over to them?

Offline Nash

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« Reply #164 on: July 07, 2004, 08:30:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
So where are you taking this Nash?  You could have responded to the debate in many ways.  Like "I disagree with that and hear is what I think is a better solution".  Instead this is your response?  Sounds like whimper of someone whose reason has fled and their argument evaporated.

Can you step out from under Gscholz skirt and stand on your own?  



Face it Nash, you don't want to discuss the issues.



You want to convert others to your opinion and you are willing to twist the facts to suit your world instead allowing those facts to define it.

>

Unfortunately your decision was made before the thread even started.

- Crumpp



To be honest, no... I'm not really into debating the whole Iraq/WMD thing again.

On this BBS I was one of only like, two... three (?) people that believed that no WMD would be found in Iraq. So maybe you can guess just how many debates about this I've been involved in and how much mud has been our way regarding this over the last coupla years. Could care less tho... I was right and yer ilk were dead wrong. As dead wrong then as you are today.

But here you come along thinking everything yer saying has never been said 1000 times before, and that every reply is somehow new and represents something that hasn't been said over and over and over again.

No, my wall 'o text days about this are over. And if I pick out a couple of lines here and there and do a brief drive-by and chuckle, forgive me...