Furballers -vs- Timid Pilots

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by GScholz
That is a fallacy. If what you say is true then WWII air combat would have been impossible. Everybody flew "timidly" in real life. You see ... they only had one life.

No your wrong. You mistake timid with smart. As others do here. If you ask any real fighter jock they will tell you that a timid pilot is a dead pilot. I'm reading Shaw now and one of his main points is you have to be agressive. In a equal fight, co-alt, similar planes, the agressive pilot most often wins.

Flying BnZ is not always timid and a BnZer can be beat by a TnB plane if the tactics are flown right but if the TnBer just runs away at the 1st sign of trouble then that is as many here say, BORING. You don't have to run a sector and a half away to get back into the fight.

If the only capability you know your aircraft has is speed I guess that's the only thing you know how to use.

[ccvi]

kills/hour is no indication of the number of fights/hour, it's just won fights/hour. for fights/hour you need to also include the deaths/hour, e.g. fights/hour = k/h / (k/d) + k/h.

I calculated this for some arbitrary players (fighter scores only, tour 57):

shane    16.19
dipstick 14.11
slapshot 12.95
stang    12.04
ccvi     10.70
nopoop   10.87
canaris   9.94
urchin    9.80
TC        8.80
akak      8.13

low means more timid flying
(or longer flights to the fight)

[HUN]

Okay it may be late and I'm not reading this right but... K/D is not represented by time so how can that be used as a variable in your equation to derive a kills an hour ratio?

[dtango]

Dipstick Wrote:  Since you started this thread... When I think of timid pilots the first thing that comes to mind is the "412 Runstangs", the "JBs" and a few others. With the notable exception of jonnyb and JB42 - who both can actually fly/fight with the best of'em.

Wow Dip, sorry you think that.  Not sure what encounters give you that impression.  I'll be happy to post some films showing some of the types of fights the 412th gets involved in when I get home.

As for the JB's I haven't come up against them much at all (I think that we had been on the same sides prior to the ENY system).  Only this tour have I gotten into scraps with them and they have been pretty fun furballs.  I've got a film of a recent fight that was a 3-v-3 with them I'll post as well.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[g00b]

I think the equation would look like this.

Deaths/Hour + Kills/Hour = Fights/Hour

Tour 57 I got a 14.7

It's a reasonably good way to measure aggressiveness.

[Furious]

Seems to me the

(kills+assists+deaths)/time  

would be closer to the amount of fights per hour.

[g00b]

Yah, I forgot about assists. Not sure if they should count...

g00b

[dtango]

Guys- using the stats only tells you how close your airfield is to a fight, not how aggressive you are in a fight.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[g00b]

yah... and upping from a front line field = more aggressive right? Not necessarily smarter, but more aggressive.

[Urchin]

I'd agree with that.. I tend to put myself at the low end of "agressive" flying.  

Do me a favor and run some for the JBs to give people a baseline of timidity.

[dtango]

Nah, it means that you get to a furball quickly.  It doesn't mean you're anymore or less aggressive in a furball.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[g00b]

I respectfully disagree. I think the type that tries to get to a furball ASAP is more likely to be aggressive than someone who ups from a couple fields back.

It's about the mindset.

One does not spend 10 minutes climbing out in a P-51 to go fly "aggressive" in a furball.

One DOES up a Spit or LaLa and head straight into the fray.

Which style is more aggressive?

Note: I am not including skill or intelligence, only the urge to fight as much as possible.

I guess we need to define aggressiveness:

Inclined to behave in an actively hostile fashion. Assertive, bold, and energetic.

If all skill levels were equal, kills/time would be a pretty good measure of aggressiveness. Since they're not, factoring in deaths to provide the fights/time provides a reasonable check, as one does not have to have skills to die

[Stang]

I tend to up from fields a bit from the fight so I can get up to speed by the time I make it in.  Takes me longer to get in the fight, but once I'm in I'm as aggressive as possible.  So I'd have to disagree w/ ya a little goob, though yeah those that up from a close field will get there quicker, doesn't mean they wont get slaughtered real quick either.

[ccvi]

Originally posted by Urchin
Do me a favor and run some for the JBs to give people a baseline of timidity.

jb33      9.27
jb42      8.56
jb01      8.09
jb11      7.88
jb22      7.81
jb35      7.40
jb28      6.31
jb77      6.26
jb07      6.12
jb17      5.95
jb82      3.22

[ccvi]

Originally posted by HUN
Okay it may be late and I'm not reading this right but... K/D is not represented by time so how can that be used as a variable in your equation to derive a kills an hour ratio?

If you kill 2 for every time you die (= k/d of 2) and kill 4 per hour, that also means you die 2 times per hour, 4 kills/hour / 2 kills/deaths = 2 deaths/hour.