Author Topic: Can we have night back?  (Read 4340 times)

Offline Overlag

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #120 on: September 13, 2004, 02:13:51 PM »
why does the plane need to be radar equiped?

i dunno if you noticed but theres a instant radar already in AH, just like that is realistic. oh and we have icons that totaly remove the consealment of darkness.

what i cant understand is we are asking for 1hour of darkness (2x30) yet you lot dont want it, instead opting for 24hours of sunlight. Why is one small hour such a problem? and most people will only see 30minutes of night a day...

id understand all this anti night whines if we was 12hours of night we was asking for.
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline SlapShot

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #121 on: September 13, 2004, 02:29:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
why does the plane need to be radar equiped?

i dunno if you noticed but theres a instant radar already in AH, just like that is realistic. oh and we have icons that totaly remove the consealment of darkness.

what i cant understand is we are asking for 1hour of darkness (2x30) yet you lot dont want it, instead opting for 24hours of sunlight. Why is one small hour such a problem? and most people will only see 30minutes of night a day...

id understand all this anti night whines if we was 12hours of night we was asking for.


I don't know about you, but when we did have night, on my monitor (no gamma tweakin'), I was simply chasing a red icon around.

I could hardly make out the plane (which is the way its supposed to be) and a headache would soon follow cause my mind was constantly trying to compensate and form a plane silouette where I assumed the plane to be in correspondence to the positon of the icon ... visualization is what is called, I believe.

That was chasing a fighter. Chasing a bomber is different and didn't cause the same effect. So if we have night and I am in a P-61 hunting bombers with my on-board radar ... I would be cool with that, cause I know that it won't be doing any wild and crazy evasives.
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Offline Estes

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #122 on: September 13, 2004, 03:13:17 PM »
No to night.

Offline lasersailor184

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #123 on: September 13, 2004, 03:17:17 PM »
Slap, that's hipocritical.  You're calling for utter realism during night, but you'll freak out if someone changes anything during the day.
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Offline SlapShot

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #124 on: September 13, 2004, 03:23:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Slap, that's hipocritical.  You're calling for utter realism during night, but you'll freak out if someone changes anything during the day.


LOL ... hypocritical ... show me where I have freaked out ever, over any change.

I am not really asking for "utter realism" ... I am saying that night is simply not a very very dark day and fighters simply did not operate at night as a norm.
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Offline Fruda

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #125 on: September 13, 2004, 03:23:42 PM »
Seems like all the whiners are hypocrites.

Let's see... I was told by one whiner that I needed to be "polite" in my counter-******* post. Be more polite, you say?

Why don't YOU people start being more polite, and quit WHINING and ruining AHII.

Offline ASTAC

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #126 on: September 13, 2004, 03:59:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Actually night fighting in its infancy was carried out using plain standard aircraft with only a different paint job.
Hurri 2c, Mossies and Spits. Admitedly the vast majority were buff intercepts.
Wasn't until later on that they started fitting a crude airborne radar to some.


Wouldn't call radar crude...since military technology has be stagnated...Radar has not changed much at all..it's still pretty crude. Still can't see ****
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Offline Hack9

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #127 on: September 13, 2004, 05:26:33 PM »
"Between mid-January and the end of July 1942, JG54 Bf109's shot down 56 enemy aircraft during the hours of darkness."
-Osprey Bf109 Aces of the Russian Front

The kills described above were the direct result of an initiative by Geschwaderkommodore Hannes Trautloft, who proposed that selected pilots should take off on bright moonlit nights and circle low over the snowy landscape of the Lake Ilmen area, ready to pounce on any unwary Soviet bombers.  The fighters sortied carried no radar.  These were front line "day" fighter units and they relied on moonlight, snowy landscape, good eyesight, proper positioning and the element of suprise.

The highest JG54 night scorer during this time period had 16 kills.  Haupt. Reinhard Seiler.  Next was Oblt Gunther Fink with 9.  Haupt Seiler's final tally was 96 kills with 16 of those being at night...and he wasn't even in a night fighter unit.

Obviously night operations were carried out by day fighters on occasions such as the 6 month period described above.  I'm sure somebody can find some sort of record of night operations for other "day fighter" units as well.  Especially in records pertaining to early to mid-war actions.  Maybe even some defense of the Reich sorties of day fighters flown at night?

For AH, it's not necessary to have a dedicated night fighter with on board radar set and heavier armament in order to night fight.  Day fighters could and did operate at night.  So should we be able to.

Kill levels may be lower at night, and maybe people don't like landing a sortie empty handed from time to time.  But it's not completely accurate to say that day fighters did not fight at night with any regularity.  6 months is a fairly large chunk of time out the average life expectancy of a fighter pilot.  And that's just taking into account night operations as officially ordered for JG54 during the first part of 1942.

There are other accounts of "early risers" starting  patrols at 2:30 or 3:30am from front line bases along the Eastern Front and returning before or with the dawn.  So if they spotted an enemy plane in the wee hours of the morning, did they radio it back to hq and ask to have a night fighter despatched?  I doubt that was even an option.  There's a fair chance that unofficial night operations, or more accurately, operations during darkness, were carried out by "day" fighter units, depending on the needs of their particular theatre of combat.

I'd like to see night return because it was fun.  Maybe it's not fun for other people.  Maybe not even for the majority of people, in which case, it's probably unlikely that it would make a return.  But it's just not accurate to say that actual fighter pilots that DID fight in ww2 on all sides simply didn't sortie day fighters at night.  If the need was there to sortie somebody in a fighter, then I bet somebody was going to up a fighter regardless of the time of day or night.  It may not have been an everyday occurance, but it did happen.

For AH purposes, we don't need special radar sets in special aircraft, though that would be even more fun. We already have a Ground Controlled Intercept style radar in our dot dar and dar bar and I can't really understand why night would have to have that radar turned off, yet day fighters could benefit from it?  Silly.  You can still blind the another country by knocking out the HQ's radar buildings.  We dont' have any night fighters that carry on board radar yet, so as night approached, country's would finally have a reason to defend their HQ's.  All around play quality would increase in my opinion with a slightly greater emphasis on the strategy of winning the "war" than on endless furballing.  (And maybe some people would actually get better at level bombing and stop trying to dive bomb with b17's and Lancs.)

We always have a full moon too, or at least AH1 did, and there was enough light to see and fly by instruments unless the clouds obscured the moonlight. Visibility wasn't all that terrible but it was dark.  Ground targets were visible enough to bomb, but you had to perfect your technique with the shorter line of sight runs. Maybe it was primarily those of us who like to level bomb that loved the night...though I always thought most people had fun during the night, whatever they flew.  I enjoyed killing night bombers as much as bombing stuff at night though, and some people did manage to furball and jabo, though the fights were generally smaller and it was a little easier to disengage if you got into trouble. But then one day the night was gone.

If the night comes back, I'll be happy.  If it doesn't.  No big deal I guess.  It's a shame to not have it, but...I guess the majority will rule.  I'll still have fun regardless.

-Hack9

Offline phookat

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #128 on: September 13, 2004, 06:09:00 PM »
Once again, as Toad mentioned above---  If you like night, whatever the reason may be...lower your gamma.  And reduce your brightness and contrast.

In all these pages of discussion, I have not seen anything which shows this to be anything other than an ideal solution for all concerned.

I could further suggest closing your eyes, but folks might take that to be too extreme.  I can't imagine why though, given some of the justifications presented in this thread.  :D

Offline mechanic

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #129 on: September 13, 2004, 06:26:24 PM »
the whole point of night time is not so that those who enjoy night can see less.

it is so ALL aircraft in a confrontation are at the same disadvantage.

lowering gamma and brightness is the stupidest suggestion ever.

we want to see the moon shining. the stars twinkling, and all the other ascociated aspects of night time, tracers whizzing about, large bomber formations making menacing shadows in the sky.

it is merely to add another element to the gameplay, which is becoming stale to say the least.

bat
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Offline lasersailor184

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #130 on: September 13, 2004, 06:38:09 PM »
Quote
it is merely to add another element to the gameplay, which is becoming stale to say the least.


Unfortunately, this is becoming true.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
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Offline mechanic

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #131 on: September 13, 2004, 06:56:26 PM »
it is a shame LS.

and i am a die hard fan.

it must be bad.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

Offline phookat

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #132 on: September 13, 2004, 07:22:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mechanic
the whole point of night time is not so that those who enjoy night can see less.

it is so ALL aircraft in a confrontation are at the same disadvantage.


That disadvantage is something that trades skill for chance.  Even for bombers I think.  That's why I don't like it.

I understand you like the graphics.  Fair enough.  But when the price of graphics is gameplay, then I say stick with gameplay.

Would you like night gameplay if we removed icons and had dar only for dedicated night fighters...and then only to the extent that 1940's in-plane radar technology allowed?  The only semi-meaningful night approach, as SlapShot has pointed out.  Seriously, what would you do if that was the case?  There's only so long you can gaze at stars.

Furthermore, stars and moons etc are things that you can see in real life.  They are more impressive there as well.  Especially out in the high desert where the air is thin and the temps are warm. :)

Offline TDeacon

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #133 on: September 13, 2004, 08:22:47 PM »
Best solution to this is to either have a separate night arena, or modify H2H to allow adjustment for night.  Then the night enthusiasts can fly to their heart's content without disturbing the majority who prefer day.  

Someone should enter a separate request for the H2H idea, or send email to HTC.

Offline SlapShot

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Can we have night back?
« Reply #134 on: September 13, 2004, 08:51:38 PM »
Very interesting Hack9 .. thanks for that ... but this is where it goes wrong ...

... ready to pounce on any unwary Soviet bombers.

and it sounds like they really only lifted under ideal moonlit conditions.

Besides hunting down bombers, which I already admitted to taking place, is there any evidence of night time dogfighting ?
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