Does HTC understand that the ENY thing has totally failed?

[GreenCloud]

just to cast my vote..


yes..I do not like being limited to what planes I fly...And I will not swicth countires..We are  a squad with loyalty

[DoKGonZo]

So Monday night I wanted to fly and try the new planes. Rooks in the South (as usual), completely outnumbered (was something like 100:150:90), simultaneous 30+ plane attacks on Rooks bases (defended and non) from both Bish and Knit. Scan the map - 2 full-size red bar dar anywhere else on the map but the Rook front.

So Tuesday night I wanted to fly to escape the election. Rooks in the North for a change but it don't matter. Odds are like 90:140:90. Rook radar is down. No supplies available anywhere within 3 sectors, so radar will probably stay down all night. First 3 fields I go to tower of are all being vultched by Knits - cities not even being touched.

All that ENY has accomplished is to move and intensify the problem. Entertainment value is quickly approaching nil.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo

All that ENY has accomplished is to move and intensify the problem. Entertainment value is quickly approaching nil.

Well said!

[Midnight]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
All that ENY has accomplished is to move and intensify the problem. Entertainment value is quickly approaching nil.

Exactly well said. I think the other threads asking players how many hours they played the last few months compared to the same months last year say it as well. It seems players are loosing interest in the same old air-quake gameplay with nothing of value to fight for or claim in victory.

We hear those stating that they look at it as entertainment only. Well, human nature (especially in men) is that the same enetertainment again and again becomes stale after a while.

I remember asking if there would be any gameplay changes introduced in AHII, and HTC said that there would not

originally posted by HiTech
Midnight.

quote:posted by midnight
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Further than all of the "when" questions, what really would interest me is what is being planned/implemented in the gameplay department which again, has been deiscussed and theorized countless times by the community. Because one thing is absolutely certain... If there are no changes to the gameplay aspect in the MA, this extended wait for AHII is going to be extremely disapointing.
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You will be very disapointed, because as we stated from Day one of anouncing AHII ,basic game play in the main is not changing in AHII.

HiTech

In fact, we have seen gameplay changes, coaded by HiTech or not. Some for the better (i.e. terrain effect on GV battles) and some for the worse (i.e. bomber divebombing, no more fuel porkage, HQ radar destruction)

What is happening to AH now? Where is it going and what is the vision for when it will be there? What happened at the Con this year with the HiTech interview by a gamer magazine? Was there an interview? I guess I'd really like to know if this game has a plan for what it expects to be. I was looking forward to the TOD concept, but it's been 2 years now and we haven't seen anything nor heard much about new ideas for how it might work.

Granted, AHII is the best out there right now, but even a guy dating a supermodel will look elsewhere if she won't put out.

[Overlag]

not failed at all. its worked 100%

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Overlag
not failed at all. its worked 100%

ENY has proven that all you need is numbers, and now there's even less reason to change sides to even the odds than before. Preservation of numbers means preservation of reset victories.

Just hope that Rookland doesn't start emptying out, because I don't think HT will let this become a 2-country game.

[Overlag]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
ENY has proven that all you need is numbers, and now there's even less reason to change sides to even the odds than before. Preservation of numbers means preservation of reset victories.

Just hope that Rookland doesn't start emptying out, because I don't think HT will let this become a 2-country game.

bish and knits emptyed out which brought ENY in
now the sides are relatively even rooks are moaning  

there are times where a side has 20-40 players more that the other, but there isnt the 100 player lead anymore and thats a good thing. Squads are moving about, with hornets split the old VMF guys went back to knits to make a squad. Some rooks came to knits, some went to bish. Soon, some may go back give it time, it took 2 months for ENY to do what its done, maybe 13tas (or whoever) will go back to rooks soon, who knows.

If rooks quit, it just proves that they only good with numbers......

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Overlag
bish and knits emptyed out which brought ENY in
now the sides are relatively even rooks are moaning  

...

If rooks quit, it just proves that they only good with numbers......

I just finished showing how the odds aren't even close to even, but you ignore it.

Thank you for highlighting just how rotten the atmosphere in the MA is.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Overlag

now the sides are relatively even rooks are moaning  

Thats a joke right? Even? what arena are you in? I have seen even #'s since ENY only about twice and I usually fly daily for hours. Its always rooks are down knights are up and bish are in the middle.

[Dead Man Flying]

We can trace the current Knights numbers imbalance to the period after the first revision to the ENY limiter.

Immediately after HTC introduced the ENY limiter into the game, the numbers remained fairly balanced but whining reached a fevered pitch.  Subsequently, HiTech adjusted the ENY penalty such that it requires almost a 2:1 numbers advantage between the country with the largest numbers and the country with the smallest numbers before penalization begins.  Prior to that, the limiter started kicking in at around 1.5:1, but it applied penalities more gradually.  Now the system penalizes later, but the level of punishment increases at a far faster rate once the numbers imbalance reaches the minimum threshold.  In addition, HTC increased the minimum number of players before the limiter kicks into effect.

Clearly the revision to the ENY limiter resulted in current imbalances rather than the failure of the ENY limiter itself.  If anything, the limiter does not penalize early enough or harshly enough to dissuade arena behavior from falling back into the pre-ENY limiter days.   Maybe it's time to firm up the ENY limiter thresholds again?

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Furious]

I tend to agree with Lev.   The whining was at its greatest, but the numbers were pretty much even or evening out during the first iteration of the ENY limiter.

[Overlag]

Originally posted by Raider179
Thats a joke right? Even? what arena are you in? I have seen even #'s since ENY only about twice and I usually fly daily for hours. Its always rooks are down knights are up and bish are in the middle.

id say 130:120:100 is even as it gets. right now its 61:55:60 fair dont you think?

the most out of wack it got last night was 140:130:90, and thats because rooks dar was out for 2 hours and we was resetting them.......and they dont like fighting without numbers, so quit instead.

100:90:200 is NOT even no matter what way you look at it. and thats what rooks did for MONTHS, its been relativily even for about 3 weeks now. Open your eyes


sure, early mornings (11am UK) it sometimes has something like 50:10:10 but you cant really fix that....

(B:K:R)

[Midnight]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
If anything, the limiter does not penalize early enough or harshly enough to dissuade arena behavior from falling back into the pre-ENY limiter days.   Maybe it's time to firm up the ENY limiter thresholds again?

-- Todd/Leviathn

The ENY limiter does NOTHING to dissuade the area behavior of the horde. All it does it change the speed at which the horde can work.

Seriously, if the numbers are even, what eventually happens is a big furball gets started at one point on the map and the "base takers" fly missions to capture fields where the furball isn't. Even numbers means they aren't capturing too many fields too fast, so the furballers don't notice which in turn means they don't care.

If the numbers are imbalanced, the furballers don't get a chance to make the big furball because the "base takers" are too many and the front moves too quickly, becasue the "base takers" end up porking strats at a lot more fields in a lot less time. The imbalanced numbers means they are capturing fields to fast, so the furballers notice and then they DO care.

All the ENY thing does is slow down the field captures some because the base takers can't get to the enemy fields fast enough with the cannons they like to have (No La7, N1K, etc.) to do their vulching.

The bottom line is that ENY does NOTHING to change Main Arena gameplay other than the speed at which it happens. The ENY does make people angry and it has reduced the play time by many players. So, as stated in the title, ENY has failed.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Midnight
The ENY limiter does NOTHING to dissuade the area behavior of the horde. All it does it change the speed at which the horde can work.

As stated, the first iteration of the ENY limiter does not seem to substantiate this claim.  If anything, it did quite a bit to encourage arena balance but at the cost of alienating a large number of players whose favorite rides quickly became targets of the penalty.  I would say that the lack of whining after the changes indicates that they were too generous.  

Also, keep in mind that arena balance and "horde" are not the same things.  The purpose of the ENY limiter was never to eliminate numbers imbalances as a method for achieving local air superiority.  It was meant, however, to reduce the possibility that one side could achieve such superiority on every front against every possible opponent in any conceivable situation.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
As stated, the first iteration of the ENY limiter does not seem to substantiate this claim.  If anything, it did quite a bit to encourage arena balance but at the cost of alienating a large number of players whose favorite rides quickly became targets of the penalty.  I would say that the lack of whining after the changes indicates that they were too generous.  

Also, keep in mind that arena balance and "horde" are not the same things.  The purpose of the ENY limiter was never to eliminate numbers imbalances as a method for achieving local air superiority.  It was meant, however, to reduce the possibility that one side could achieve such superiority on every front against every possible opponent in any conceivable situation.

If the player dynamic is that the two bigger sides attack the weaker (a reversal of the past trend), then the biggest side has numeric superiority on all its fronts.

ENY seems to have encouraged one round of player migration. Once players resettled their Hordes to new pastures, they found the same plane penalties there and that there was still overwhelming strength in numbers - so there was no reason to move again.


One problem is that while you win perks and the "war" by scoring a reset, you win basically nothing for a successful defense (save for whatever perks you could gather fighting at 1:3 odds). And the perks won for a reset are the same if you do it with 1:1 odds as with 3:1 odds - so why not do it the easy way with 3:1 odds?

As long as the reward for winning via Horde is the same as winning via skill, and as long as there's no reward for skillfull defense other than to postpone the inevitable I can't see the current MA dynamic changing all that much.