Originally posted by Crumpp
Well Milo please produce the documentation showing 4400 sorties. Any documentation or source would be appreciated.
The subject is the P47's range.
The range comes from the USAF museum at Wright Patterson.
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I gave you the source. Here's another: Duel for the Sky by Christopher Shores.
Idiot...those number are for the P-47D-40-RA, which had a greater internal capacity (65 gallons) and could carry 183 more gallons under the wings and fuselage than the earlier P-47s in service in early 1944.
First false statement from Widewing. He creates the perception that all 200 Luftwaffe fighters were opposing 50 p38's. Not true. Those 200 fighters had to defend the entire Western European theater and the Reich. Widewing does not include the hundreds of P47's and the few P51's that were present either.
It was true statement. Go back and read again Einstein, I was refering to operations BEFORE 1944. There were no P-51s available for deep penetrations and P-47s were limited to a single 75 gallon belly tank, incapable of reaching Germany. Furthermore, there were many more than 200 German fighters defending the Reich....
Second false statement from Widewing. Widewing uses the number of FIGHTER sorties that crossed the German border to create a false perception again. No historian will accept that the Luftwaffe flew more sorties than the USAAF in Feb '44. It is just not true.
Again, you insist on changing the argument to support your bullsheet. You insist on referring to the entire month of February when the discussion was about a period of 5 days in late February. What's funny is that you cannot see through your own smokescreen.
Third false statement from Widewing. The first USAAF shot down over German soil was a P47. They had the range to escort to all but a few targets. According to the USAAF the P47's were present in their own combat reports.
Once again you refer to the range of a P-47 model not available until much later in the war. Those P-47s in Britain at the time had a maximum radius of action of 350 miles IF they they had the 108 gallon drop tank. That also assumes climb to only 25,000 feet. Most P-47s were assigned escort altitudes greater than 30,000 feet. This reduced their radius by up to 50 miles. Furthermore, that radius excludes assembly time, which could cut into the radius by another 50 miles. Fighter Groups based on sod fields could not use the 108 gallon tank as it was usually ripped off during the takeoff run. These were limited to single 75 gallon tanks. Not all P-47s were assigned escort tasks to the German border. Groups flew relay coverage. Some groups never got within 100 miles of Germany. Unfortunately for the Luftwaffe, they made the mistake of attacking the bombers when they were being protected by hundreds of Thunderbolts. This error in tactics is what caused the majority of Luftwaffe fighter losses. The very best units in the 8th AF were flying P-47s, not P-38s or P-51s. However, those two types did the escort duty for deep penetrations to the targets.
In early March, the 56th and a few other P-47 groups received their first 108 gallon drop tanks but only a few of their fighters were plumbed for a pair of these under the wings. When all in-service Jugs were modified they finally could stretch their range to the Elbe. During Big Week, the deepest P-47 penetration was to the area of Dortmond, about 60 miles east of the border, although some earlier missions had previously taken the Jugs as far east as the western outskirts of Bremen (south of Oldenburg), where they picked up the returning bombers. Remember, only those groups based on facilities with hard surface runways could use the 108 gallon tank on the belly. Dual wing mounted tanks were not available until late winter due to each P-47 requiring depot level modifications to add the wing hardpoints and plumbing. Only ten could be modified per week and this did not begin until around Christmas of 1943. Less than 100 P-47s were capable of carrying two tanks at the time of the Big Week operation and the locally made 108 gallon tanks were even more rare.
Once the P-47D-25-RE arrived in May, the P-47 now had the range to reach downtown Berlin, although they had zero loiter time (P-51s could loiter for 30-45 minutes).
No one discounted the P-47s during Big Week, in fact I did just the opposite. However, the P-47s did not fly escort to the targets, they had to return shortly after reaching the German border.
Geez Crumpp, you are a dedicated practitioner of obfuscation.
My regards,
Widewing
