Author Topic: P38 a super plane?  (Read 16724 times)

Offline Meyer

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 156
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #90 on: November 29, 2004, 08:41:28 PM »
Angus, the flaps were handled manually.
You can see them in this picture, it's that big wheel (the another one is for the trim)






Offline Crumpp

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #91 on: November 29, 2004, 08:45:07 PM »
Enjoy.







Crumpp

Offline Crumpp

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #92 on: November 29, 2004, 09:03:12 PM »


Crumpp

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6864
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #93 on: November 29, 2004, 09:25:45 PM »
LOL Crumpp, I'll believe the legit historian such as Freeman over some wannabe one, any day.

Stay in your dream world. I will believe what the pilots said regarding the P-47s range and flying times.

That 45 minutes of yours back is 'going downhill''.:eek:  Going down hill in a lighter a/c uses much less fuel than 'going uphill' in a heavier a/c. Thirty minutes of that 1.5 hours was spent over 'enemy' territory. ('enemy territory' so you are not confused begins after crossing the Dutch coast)

They dumped those 200gal  ferry tank and used others.

Why did you ignore the P-38 chart which has the P-38 having a range MUCH further than the P-47? You must be thick between the ears if you say the P-38 did not get much further than the P-47.

Dispite your dreams, the pilots gave place names and flying times in a combat zone that came NOWHERE near your dream distance in late '43-early '44. But then you do have trouble the way you mix late 43, early 44 and late 44 all together in one pot. :rolleyes:


An Allied word, not the German definition which says it was 'landing' position.


Oh yah. Reduce the sizes of your posted graphics. The extra large size is not impressive, at all.

Offline Scherf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3409
Doccos
« Reply #94 on: November 29, 2004, 09:30:12 PM »
Thanks crumpp

(good thing I'm on broadband  ...  :D  )

cheers,

Scherf
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Crumpp

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #95 on: November 29, 2004, 09:55:17 PM »
Np Scherf.  I left it kind of big because the ink was old and faded.  It did not copy very well.

Milo...

Your ranting sounds, well...pathetic.  Get some help.
Thanks for the flap info but check here.

Crumpp
« Last Edit: November 29, 2004, 09:59:15 PM by Crumpp »

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6864
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #96 on: November 29, 2004, 10:15:20 PM »
What is pathetic Crumpp is the dilusional amount of BS you post between the odd bit of good info.

I already know that info.:eek:

Offline Crumpp

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #97 on: November 29, 2004, 10:29:17 PM »
Quote
I already know that info.


Your pretty Dense Milo.  Check the date on the thread.  It was quite a while ago and No I don't think you do.

 
Quote
An Allied word, not the German definition which says it was 'landing' position.


It's the take off flaps the pilots used in turns like US Combat Flaps.  "Start" is the German word for TAKE OFF.  The Landing flaps were 58 degrees.

Crumpp

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6864
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #98 on: November 29, 2004, 10:32:41 PM »
quote:
I don't think the P38 went much farther.

That is right you don't think.

Since you used Baugher for the P-47's range, this is what he says for the P38.

P-38H
maximum range with external tanks was 2400 miles.

P-38J
2260 miles at 186 mph at 10,000 feet with two 250 Imp gall drop tanks.

P-47-25-RE
maximum external fuel was 1800 miles at 10,000 feet at 195 mph.

LOL, with all at max fuel load, the P-38 has a minimum of 460 mi GREATER range.

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6864
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #99 on: November 29, 2004, 10:45:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
Your pretty Dense Milo.  Check the date on the thread.  It was quite a while ago and No I don't think you do.
 
It's the take off flaps the pilots used in turns like US Combat Flaps.  "Start" is the German word for TAKE OFF.  The Landing flaps were 58 degrees.

Crumpp


Some brain fade there Crumpp. You have posted that link before and not to long ago.:rolleyes:

My mistake, used the wrong word.:) Should have said 'take off'. Just like you claimed that chart was American claims ( A summary of claims by the USAAF Fighters) Preoccupied with your range bs for the P-47.

Offline Crumpp

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #100 on: November 29, 2004, 10:48:13 PM »
Think you missed this...





:D

Crumpp

Offline Scherf

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3409
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #101 on: November 29, 2004, 11:24:29 PM »
Anyone able to decipher what Octane rating is used in the Vought document?

Cheers,

Scherf
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6864
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #102 on: November 29, 2004, 11:30:57 PM »
To bad it does not correspond with the charts post previously.:eek: So, would say there is one of your 'military errors' you yapped about on that chart, using range instead of radius for the P-47.

But when you wear horse blinders, like you do Crumpp, that is what is expected.

Also notice the P-47 has more range than the P-51.:eek:

Using that chart it should have been the P-47s that went to Berlin instead of the P-51s and P-38s. (listed is internal fuel load) And, you called me dense! :rolleyes:

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #103 on: November 29, 2004, 11:49:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
Think you missed this...
:D

Crumpp


LOLOLOL.

So, are you stating that all of the data on this document is accurate? Please, please make my day, say yes.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
P38 a super plane?
« Reply #104 on: November 30, 2004, 01:07:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Meyer
Thanks for your educate response... but I think you need to improve your reading skills.
 
I'm not comparing 'anything', I'm just saying that Robert Johnson didn't have a similar record of claims/missions that the betters Lw pilots in that category (as Widewing did suggest)
 
 If you 'can't handle the truth' it's not my problem.

 ~S~


Hold it there Herr Meyer. I didn't suggest anything, I reported what two of aviation's more highly regarded historians have stated from the results of their research. That's the truth and you'll just have to deal with it.

Robert Johnson flew 91 combat mission. During those missions, he saw German fighters 43 times. In 36 of the 43 encounters, Johnson fired his guns at the enemy. A result of those 36 instances where he fired on German aircraft, 37 of those aircraft were hit; with as few as 27 or as many as 32 going down, depending on which researcher you are willing to believe.

So, Johnson fired his guns in anger on 36 missions and hit 37 German aircraft, with at least 27 going down, 6 credited as "probables" and 4 others damaged. Some researchers have suggested that Johnson probably shot down 32 Luftwaffe fighters because loss records agree with Johnson's claims for probables on those dates, in the areas where Johnson was engaged. Sorry, but I forget the two gentlemen's names who wrote the piece. However, those possible kills would only be gravy. Johnson's record is remarkable as it is considering the circumstances. I am proud to have gotten to know him in the later years of his life.

At his prime, I'd match him up against any fighter pilot on the planet and take odds Johnson wins.

Oh yeah, on October 8, 1943 Johnson came to the aid of another P-47 engaged with a pair of Fw 190s. Johnson engaged and shot down one of them. Its pilot was Hans Phillip, one of the leading "Experten" with 207 kills. That other 190 was splashed by the other P-47. Phillip was Johnson's 3rd kill.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.