RAF report on Tempest vs Typhoon, Spit 14, P-51-B, FW-190, Bf-109G,

[Kurfürst]

Originally posted by MiloMorai
Flying Officer Ronald Dennis, a NZer with 56 Sqd RAF.

"All our a/c were fitted with Rotol airscrews when the maximum rpm were increased from 3850 from 3700 and the boost to 13lb from 11lb."

This being mid 1944 during the V-1 terror bombings.

There is also Roland Beamont using 150PN fuel during this time and achieving 415mph IAS @ 500ft. His Wing then using 150PN fuel.

So the proof being a pilot`s tale about increased boost during the V-1 retaliation strikes? It`s no proof in regards of regular squadron use. During that time, many aircraft were tested or experienced with (I hope you get the difference between this and operational clearance) at increased powers, but there`s no document I know of that would clear anything higher than +11 lbs boost. (And even that required 150 grade fuel, something the 2nd TAF didn`t have, and in fact, there`s no document that would tell Tempest squadrons are also to receive the new fuel, it only mentions Spitties and Mossies iirc.)

One Tempest flown by Eric Brown during those trials flamed up the engine at less than +11lbs iirc, the Spit XIVs were toyed with +25 lbs but couldn`t even complete the trials themselves, the engine had troubles with the main bearings and there`s no indication of the boost ever being cleared on those series of engines. In fact it can be said with certainity they were never cleared for that, even if the owner of the Spitfire site filters the available information on his site, putting the +25lbs trials on the site, 'forgetting' to mention the plane`s troubles at that boost, 'forgetting' to put up the document that bans the use of +25lbs. The same document gives the Sabre`s peak boost at 11lbs, and notes such boost requires 150 grade fuel.

So basically there`s strong evidence that the Tempests didn`t run operationally at more than +11 lbs. Due to the fuel supply, I doubt they ran any often at more than +9lbs before 1945.

[MiloMorai]

Barbi, what do you not comprehend about ALL OUR A/C in a statement of a pilot of an operational RAF Squadron?

What did you not comprehend about Wing Commander Roland Beamont's statement that his Wing(#150 consisting of Sqds 3, 56 and 486) used 150PN fuel? Beamont had a considerable degree of authority and influence and was given a remarkably free hand in operational matters and automomy. So if you have trouble with the CO of an RAF wing and one of its pilots saying that 150PN fuel and 13lb boost was used, to bad.

With your logic that No 56 was not an operational squadron because it was part of ADGB, then all the JGs defending the Reich were not operational either.

quote: During that time, many aircraft were tested or experienced with (I hope you get the difference between this and operational clearance)

I do have trouble with 'experienced'. Care to explain.

[Crumpp]

Fw which was derated due to reliability problems and could not increase its boost pressure. When the reliabilty problem had been fixed, the derating was lifted.

I encourage you to get a better education on the FW-190 if your going to be making claims based on half truths.

Yes the BMW801C's had reliability issues.  The BMW 801D2's did not.  You can purchase the Flugzeug-handbuchs from a number of places, do some research at several museums, or purchase some decent reference material which will show the boost pressures the BMW801D2 was cleared for from it's begining in a rated motor.

1.42ata @2700U/min for 2 minutes (later 3 minutes) from the FW-190A3 to the FW-190A7.

Crumpp

[MiloMorai]

What engine did Faber's Fw190A-3 use?  This a/c used a derated engine.

And you tell me to get a better Fw education.

[Kurfürst]

Well Milo, I guess an official clearance paper showing that no more than +11 lbs boost is allowed is better proof than a pilot`s story, especially if it comes from somebody with so doubtful credibility as you.

Such stories often emerge from nowhere in 'times of need'. See also Nashwan making up nonexistant Indian MkXIV squadrons when it come to light how few units equipping them existed.

Of course this is what draws the line between fan-stories and hard facts. The latter are supported by documentation as well.

[Crumpp]

What engine did Faber's Fw190A-3 use? This a/c used a derated engine.  

A BMW 801D2 derated to use stocks of fuel on hand.

Crumpp

[Crumpp]

What engine did Faber's Fw190A-3 use? This a/c used a derated engine.

And the wheel goes round and round , round and round....

According to Larry Wilson at the NASM, all the AF's in the world "de rated" motors. It was common practice and allowed the Force to use up inferior grade Aviation fuel without damaging rated engines.

It was also done for other reasons with fuel quality being the most common.

Since the White 1 Foundation has the largest collection of BMW 801's in the world, the largest collection of tools, literature, special equipment, and most experienced 801 mechanics in the world I highly suggest you join and get the facts.

Crumpp

[MiloMorai]

I would not mention someone elses credibility Barbi, you the master at data maniplution and the teller of outright lies.

A typical denial post by you. Beamont's Wing's use of 150PN fuel is documented, as is his test. Do you think ALL documentation is available, to you? You are dilusional if you think so.

Beamont had nothing to gain, except better performance from the Tempest. So if you want to call Beamont a liar, a maker up of stories and lacks credibility, go right ahead.


What ever you say Crumpp. Post the question on why the A-3 was derated on the Focke Wulf Fw190 Board at White 1.

[Urchin]

Forgive a stupid laypersons question.. but what is the difference between a "de-rated" and a engine "restricted" to run at a certain manifold?  

Could the "restricted" engine be run at higher Manifold once the proper gas was aquired?  

If so... then is the difference that the "de-rated" engine is forever doomed to run at lower Manifold no matter what kind of gas you put in?

[Crumpp]

Forgive a stupid laypersons question.. but what is the difference between a "de-rated" and a engine "restricted" to run at a certain manifold?

As it was explained to me, Milo.

A de-rated engine can be put back to rated status depending on reason it was de-rated.  

For fuel, then yes.  All that has to happen is the correct fuel is used and any mechanical adjustments are reversed.

As soon as the reason for derating is removed in most cases the engine can then become rated.

The RAF never made the mechanical adjustments and used very different fuels from the German Synthetic fuels.  It was not that they did not have BMW 801's capable of reaching full potential.  They had no idea it was off and no knowledge of how to adjust it back.  

First the RAF only calculated Bhp and did not put the motor to an actual power output test like the USAAF did.  Had they done this I am sure a big red flag would have gone up and the RAF would have immediately started looking for the reason.  This is why RAF Bhp charts match the Luftwaffe charts in most cases but their performance curves are very different.  And the reason for the 1944 RAF report showing this and demanding more testing.

Crumpp

[MiloMorai]

quote: "Forgive a stupid laypersons question.. but what is the difference between a "de-rated" and a engine "restricted" to run at a certain manifold?"

Originally posted by Crumpp
As it was explained to me, Milo.

Crumpp

LOL Crumpp, you really do have problems. It was not my post you quoted.

[Crumpp]

Long day Milo.  Should have thought something was up when the poster was civil and did not act like a spoiled child.

Crumpp

[Angus]

Remember once again, that the 190's tested were from combat operating level, from being in use, so they should reflect (untill their engines went POOF) some view of the 190's the RAF or USAAF would meet in the air.

Oh, and for Izzy.
Don't know of those XIV's in the far east, but they got VIII's by the bundles, and the performance is quite similar.
"Killer" Caldwell had no problems with engaging the Japanese from below if needed.
The Mk VIII also was used in G-Suit testing I belive.
I'd actually pick it over the XIV, especially in the far east. Why? Well, Equally fast, equal climber, better turner, worse diver.
It was a much better diver than the Zeke anyway.
But I bet it corkscrewed upwards better than anything in the world at the time, hehe.

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Crumpp
Long day Milo.  Should have thought something was up when the poster was civil and did not act like a spoiled child.

Crumpp

What ever you say, but as usual, you don't think.  At least I am not so full of myself. It is always interesting when a 'little person' tries to be a 'big person'.

[Crumpp]

It is always interesting when a 'little person' tries to be a 'big person'.

That's why you are fun to watch.

So what is your next stupid claim after your latest mistakes on derated engines?

Crumpp