The Forming of Something Great....

[rshubert]

Originally posted by mars01

 
Congratulations you rallied the horde, it does it by itself every day, there’s an accomplishment.  

Trying to get furballers to climb to 20k, fly late model rides and BnZ. Do that and you have accomplished something.

Get your Horde to take early war rides and come in below 8k, then you have done something.

Just telling the horde what to carry and where to go, not that big of a stretch.

Setting up a good  (note GOOD) mission is not really that easy, unless you have a large squad like I do.  There are certain other groups that we work well with and a bunch of inDUHvidualists that won't cooperate at all--hell, they jeer you when you ask for help.

Getting a mission to really work involves choosing good people to carry out portions of the mission by using their heads.  There's no lockstep formula for any fight, enemy response is not always the same.  You figure out a plan, and then rely on a bunch of high-strung volunteers to carry it out.  It's a lot like herding cats.

Some guys like this aspect of the game, others don't.  As far as I am concerned, play the game any way you like, nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to do.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Charon
That's the type of thing that usually constitutes some of the 10 minutes of fun I can manage to dig up each half hour of play. Wouldn't it have been nice to then have the mass to chase them down wherever they run to? Remove the option to hide?

Charon

Actually we tried to find them.  I think it might have been a mission and once it failed, everyone went their own way.

[FBNavy3]

Does Not Matter What You Call It!!! It is TEAM WORK, and thats why you have a hard time stopping it! The people who complain about team work are people who dont work well with others. The Axis Army tried the same thing in WWII. Only to FAIL.(The SS)

[Charon]

Does Not Matter What You Call It!!! It is TEAM WORK, and thats why you have a hard time stopping it! The people who complain about team work are people who dont work well with others. The Axis Army tried the same thing in WWII. Only to FAIL.(The SS)

LOL. This thread needed a little levity.

Bluto: What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the going gets tough . . . the tough get going. Who's with me? Let's Go! Come on! AAAAEEEEEGGGHHHH!!

Charon

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Charon
LOL. This thread needed a little levity.

Bluto: What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the going gets tough . . . the tough get going. Who's with me? Let's Go! Come on! AAAAEEEEEGGGHHHH!!

Charon

lol.  classic movie, that one.

[mars01]

I was a bit torn with this. I didn’t want to scare people away with all the talk of organization, but at the same time it was clear that organization to some small degree was absolutely required. DoK outlined a likely plan of attack, and a plan of defense/offense. There were some elements that would lead to success, calling for some organization, but not to the extent that any squad participating would be forced to do anything drastically different than what it usually does. Here is what I envisioned:

Guys like the 56th like to do high altitude fighter sweeps. There is a need for high altitude fighter sweeps to push the horde down to the deck. If they join in they do their thing and contribute to the cause. They even lead themselves in the process. They would have found a bunch of lower N1K2s, but still flying a bit higher than they should have been. Meat on the table assuming they don’t just like to cherry pick the occasional high alt 109.

Guys like the BKs like to furball and create a local meat grinder on the deck. So do I. While the odds were somewhat even I had two or three multi-kill sorties in a Ki-84 over the base without going above 5K. Couldn’t ask for more fun.

Some squads like to fight A2A and A2G, but they don’t like to fly for or against 5-1 odds. Great chance to do their thing and contribute.

I couldn't agree more.  I was hoping squads that like the different aspects would have jumped on board and fulfilled the necessary role, which they do now but with no coordintion.

The problem is, either they didn't know, wern't on,  or didn't want to be involved.  Either way tho, the initial response and interest on the knight side was bleak.

[rshubert]

Wanna try again next Thursday night?  I can get a new, improved Horde Mk. 2 for you to play with...



shubie

[mars01]

Setting up a good (note GOOD) mission is not really that easy, unless you have a large squad like I do. There are certain other groups that we work well with and a bunch of inDUHvidualists that won't cooperate at all--hell, they jeer you when you ask for help.

LOL you talk like you are the only one that knows how to plan missions.  I've been part of many missions and even ran a few, it takes one guy leading and the rest doing thats it.

As the missions get larger it takes even less.  Everyone knows its VH, Ack, City and FH if you cant cap.  So when you have 20 guys dropping in you really have to be a maroon to leave anything up.

Guys that run smaller missions, 5 to 10 guys have the marginally harder job because you have less resources to drop the field with and waste is an issue.

Getting a mission to really work involves choosing good people to carry out portions of the mission by using their heads. There's no lockstep formula for any fight, enemy response is not always the same. You figure out a plan, and then rely on a bunch of high-strung volunteers to carry it out. It's a lot like herding cats.

LOL, you really think this game is that difficult hahahaha.  The formula is that simple.

Some guys like this aspect of the game, others don't. As far as I am concerned, play the game any way you like, nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to do.

Who said anyhting about forcing anyone to play the game a certain way.  Not me, I am just discussing tactic and game play.  Again I could care less what people do as long as they fight.

[mars01]

Maybe I should swap sides again

Don't do it Jam you'll have to fight all your countrymen for your kills lol.

[DoKGonZo]

Well ....

Horde Warrior started back in AW. It got to be like the "5 Corners" (or whatever it was) in "Gangs of New York" ... only with 3 gangs. Folks would loiter/climb near the country junction until one Horde clearly had numbers and alt - and then they'd splooge over the border - until they saw a higher dot. That's when I bailed from AW ... just got absurd.

WB had a country-level horde going on ... some countries were always down on people ... almost perpetually so ... while the others just picked off islands which were less defended.


One thing I noticed last nite was that Knights talk a lot less in combat. Maybe it was just that one night or that one battle, but if I was flying Rooks as I usually do I'd have seen and heard a lot more chatter. I was clearing my own 6 because I heard precious few 6 calls on distance channel. I think DipStick and Mars were the only two I heard really working together.


As for those "good" missions ... if what I saw last night is how that's defined now then enjoy your 90% casualty rates. And please don't rationalize that attrition will always be high with base capture because we all know it can be done against defended fields without massive losses. If you don't suck at it, anyway.

[mars01]

Wanna try again next Thursday night? I can get a new, improved Horde Mk. 2 for you to play with...

Thursdays are out for me, anything Sun - Wed would work tho.

[mars01]

One thing I noticed last nite was that Knights talk a lot less in combat. Maybe it was just that one night or that one battle, but if I was flying Rooks as I usually do I'd have seen and heard a lot more chatter. I was clearing my own 6 because I heard precious few 6 calls on distance channel. I think DipStick and Mars were the only two I heard really working together.

Very true to a degree, but being out numbered and at the disadvantage as most knights were last night, people get too busy looking every which way and dodging cons that their picture becomes very small (just yourself and the very close ) and it gets harder to see whos chasing who in the bigger picture.

The other side of the coin is when you get so many cons everyone is engaged and there aren't extra guys that can oversee the battle and make calls.

I noticed this when the TAS did their two country tour.  Each country was good at it until their force was being overwhelmed, then it gets quite because everone  get so busy.  Especiall in these large meles where cons are comming from everywhere.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by FBNavy3
Does Not Matter What You Call It!!! It is TEAM WORK, and thats why you have a hard time stopping it! The people who complain about team work are people who dont work well with others. The Axis Army tried the same thing in WWII. Only to FAIL.(The SS)

Uh ... actually the Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht excelled at small unit tactics. What clobbered them was overwhelming numbers - in the air from the Allies and on the ground from the Russians. Go read "Messerschmitts over Sicily: Diary of a Luftwaffe Fighter Commander" by Johannes Steinhoff for a glimpse of what their life was like against the weight of Allied numbers - in the early days before things got real bad.


Bottom line is the game system rewards Horde play - objectives can be taken by a large group of unskilled players who simply wear down a base through attrition, suicide attacks, and exploiting low-level strategic bombers. To dress that up as "team work" or "mission planning" is inane.

If the game system changed to throttle sortie rates the balance of gameplay would start shift overnight from "quantity" to "quality." But as the saying goes: "The more things don't change the more they stay the same."

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by mars01
Very true to a degree, but being out numbered and at the disadvantage as most knights were last night, people get too busy looking every which way and dodging cons that their picture becomes very small (just yourself and the very close ) and it gets harder to see whos chasing who in the bigger picture.

The other side of the coin is when you get so many cons everyone is engaged and there aren't extra guys that can oversee the battle and make calls.

...

Dunno ... I know that even when we have a massive base defense going there's constant chatter going on in Rookland. I'm not trying to get into the "which country is better" argument, but this was the most glaring difference I noticed last night. If you get too busy to look around and make 6 calls then your own SA is degraded.

[mars01]

Dunno ... I know that even when we have a massive base defense going there's constant chatter going on in Rookland. I'm not trying to get into the "which country is better" argument, but this was the most glaring difference I noticed last night. If you get too busy to look around and make 6 calls then your own SA is degraded.

Yeah no doubt about it.  

But next time you are getting great six calls etc stop and look at which side is controlling the fight, has the greater numbers and less work load.

Then when the six calls are rare take a look, let me know if you see the same things.  Again this is just what I see.

As for the country better thing, they all suck equally lolh.