Author Topic: How do you protect  (Read 2419 times)

Offline bustr

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How do you protect
« Reply #105 on: January 13, 2005, 02:59:58 AM »
Nash,

From your last response:

NASH: Something is going to become apparent.

And I think that with a certain type of gun owner, the part of the brain that would so invest itself with the self-defense aspect of gun ownership, is naturally going to seek out other situations where defense is invloved. That would be defending the ability to own guns in the first place. So it's either pimps or Presidents. Either way, ya gotsa to self defend! :NASH

NASH,

Why are you afraid of people with whepons? Are you afraid in general of the unlimited potential all human beings have for viloence? You are recognising one of mankinds fundimental flaws. The U.S. constitution accounts for much of human nature in its wisdom. Power is a magnet to weak people. People kill each other for emotional reasons. The ability to use deadly force counters corruption and the homicide due to some weak humans.

Human evil exists. We all have experienced variations of it in ourselves. And so each of us is qualified to recognise it when we see it!! The constitution gaurds the right of its beneficiaries to protect their lives from the evil weaknesses of human kind.

It seems you have not made up your mind if you can live in this imperfict world of potentially violent human beings. So would you make the good guys unable to protect their lives from the bad guys so that your moment of destiny will never come in this life time????? Are you one of those who would do anything to live ONE second longer on the backs of your fellow recipients of the gift of life?????? Please answer this last question in a bianary format. Anything else would illuminate an adversion to the light of truthfull self inspection and leave your credibility questionable at best in the face of those multitudes who have died from human evil before you.

Given that this is a Board, I suspect you will have another cold dead hands response. Anonymnoty is also a human weakness.

skuzzy: I understand my content may incur a deletion of this post. I apologise if I have stepped over the bounds of good taste for this Board.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline SaburoS

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« Reply #106 on: January 13, 2005, 06:23:02 AM »
Nash,
Pick any topic that involves to the core emotion. Those topics whether it be gun rights, religion, evolution, taxes, culture, etc., etc., turn into loooong threads mostly painted with the "logic" as we see fit to fill what we see with our own bias.
Being this has turned into a gun thread, I'll give you my experiences. I'm 43. My parents were into many hobbies, among them was plinking and target shooting. We were afforded the luxury of not having to depend on hunting for our food. First time I went shooting I was 6-7 y.o., my sister 5. I was in the Junior NRA at 7.
Fast forward to public high school where one of the electives to choose was riflery. Since the start of high school I had severe tendinitis of my left hamstring region that eventually took 10 years to fully recover. Senior year joined the rifle team (one had to qualify as Expert - US Army small bore 50' indoor). We ended up as city champs and I was also a part of the winning team in the Tri-City meet. I took 2nd place individual - Kneeling.
It's wierd but through my target shooting, I can drop my heart rate 15-20 bps in about 2-4 seconds (most people can do that actually with practice).
It was the only "sport" I could compete at given my debilitaing injury.
Fast forward to present day. I own a Remington 700 PSS .308 bolt action, a California and Federal legal (at the time) modified L1A1 .308 semi auto rifle, and a SigSauer P220-45 with a Barstow stainless steel barrel. I, like a vast majority of law abiding, gun owning US citizens, don't go around packing looking for trouble.
It is our culture. Is it slowly changing? Sure is as it is everywhere else.
What do you think the real odds are of those that are into guns, turning to criminals and going out to randomly kill people? Miniscule.
How about from accidental (idiot handling) discharge? Miniscule.
What are the odds of walking down a US city street and getting shot at? Miniscule.
As a matter of fact, not a single friend or family member has ever been in that situation.
It is easy to read/watch/listen to the media about a single incident here or there and think it is happening EVERYWHERE and all the time, when in fact it is extremely rare.
How about potential violent situations that are prevented because of a citizen brandishing a gun? Not as miniscule.
We just don't see those situations in the media (usually because someone isn't going to call the local paper/tv news station and report "Guess what I did!....").
I am about a risk of 1000-10000 times more likely to die from a heart attack/stroke(high blood cholesterol), or vehicle accident as opposed to my getting shot. We are all going to die at some point.
Point is, I don't think you really need to worry about it. So what if some gun enthusiasts get worked up about their gun ownership rights? It's the same as if we're talking about evolution, politics, religion, sports, music, cars, etc.
It's an emotional thing ;)
BTW, how's your diet and exercise? You run a risk of dying early if it's poor. How about getting into a vehicle? You run a greater risk of getting killed.
Don't worry about the gun thing. There are many more things to worry about that are much higher on the "gonna kill me early" list.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #107 on: January 13, 2005, 08:56:13 AM »
subaru... 1.5 to 3 million crimes a year are stopped by citizens with firearms... Proof enough?

nash... u need to dig a little deeper... you went just deep enough to "prove" the conclusion you allready held.  You point to one incident where I was repeatedly asked if I had ever used a gun for defense.... you fail to point out the numerous times I talk about history and plinking and reloading and general recreation.

I am absoluetly sure that I get as much use and entertainment out of guns as you do out of fishing (which I find a silly waste of time and never hear you talk about cooking or eating fish).

I load probly 5,000 or so rounds a year.   What do you think I do wioth em?   horde em for burglars?   I own guns that are considered pretty passe by the self defense crowd... why do you think I own them?

I have talked numerous times about taking new shooters out and teaching them safe gun handling and how I NEVER TOOK ANYONE OUT SHOOTING WHO DIDN'T HAVE A REALLY GOOD TIME.   conversly.... I have been out fishing and I would rather paint the living room or watch the food channel.

Allmost all my posts that have anthing to do with self defense of the 2nd are in response to someone saying we have no right to either...  Toad responds exactly the same way to such posts.

I constantly talk about getting in the elky and going shooting... youi are either lieing on purpose or letting your prejudice blind you.... I suspect the latter as it is pretty much a pattern with you on all subjects I have seen.    

I talk about the mechanical beauty and history and fun of firearms all the time.   I have a gun culture.   I am around em all the time.   they are also the best tool in a lot of cases for stopping agressive behavior as our founding fathers noted.    No big deal really.

If anyone here wants to talk about plinking or reloading (mini has in the past) then I will be glad to bore them for hours...

I have a standing invitation to take anyone here out shooting if they wish when they visit me...  Why?   you tell me nash... what is my motive?   Ask beet.... did we shoot at pictures of people from behind cover when he visited?   Ask him if we had..... FUN.  Ask him if we were SAFE.

I belong to a shooting range where all you can do is shoot at targets.   Do I go there to seek out crimionals to shoot?   I have a binder full of targets with the load that I made and used in grains and group size... I like to have accurate guns and loads for "plinking" and "work" hard at it.

The things you "work" at to fish are a total waste of time in my book but I realize you enjoy it...  

lazs

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #108 on: January 13, 2005, 09:01:04 AM »
and subaru... I agree... the chances of using a gun to defend yourself is minimal... the chance of being injured by one is minimal... only 10% of the people would carry guns if they could.

I think the fact that so many guns are out there increases the cahnce that they won't be needed (hot burglaries here as oppossed to england for instance)   criminals interviewed in jail say that they fear armed citizens more than the police.

That lessen the chance not increases it... and that is as it should be.   I believe that an armed society is a polite society where youth and strength don't rule but common polite courtesy has a chance.

lazs

Offline airguard

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« Reply #109 on: January 13, 2005, 03:51:49 PM »
I got 3 cats, my wife and a axe (wich i actually use for chopping wood) to protect me and I feel fine.
I am a Norwegian eating my fish, and still let my wife mess me around in stupid shops...

Offline Nash

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« Reply #110 on: January 13, 2005, 06:26:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bustr
Are you one of those who would do anything to live ONE second longer on the backs of your fellow recipients of the gift of life?????? Please answer this last question in a bianary format. Anything else would illuminate an adversion to the light of truthfull self inspection and leave your credibility questionable at best in the face of those multitudes who have died from human evil before you.


Wot?

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #111 on: January 14, 2005, 08:22:07 AM »
ok nash... guess I made it too complicated for you.

Just like some people fish only for the love of the equipment or for the catch or to eat em or to catch and release..

shooting and firearms is a multifaceted hobby some emphasize defense (women and elderly/infirm who keep a gun soley for defense).. some do it for the historical value some to hunt some to do bulseye some to do other shooting sports and some to plink at cans and some to get into repair, customizing and reloading.

now... I am into every facet of guns to some extent.  How I will react and interact is based on how you come at me... if you get all UN or george soros on me I will bet huffy and stand on my rights and prove their worth..

If you come at me wanting to know the best gun for plinking I will go on for hours about plinking... same for reloading..  Do you want to know a cheap accurate 44 mag load?  well... I got opinions.

Now...

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #112 on: January 14, 2005, 08:27:08 AM »
lets say that 30% of your politicians were out to ban fishing... say the link between divorce and fishing was being used as an excuse and these guys had the backing of the UN and were funded by busybody foreigners like george soros...  you know they are wrong but they keep bringing up the divorce rate and women beaten or killed by selfish fisherman and people in other countries who know nothing about fishing can't see why you need to tie flys or polish your pole or whatever it is you do.

will you react differently when these guys come at you than you do when someone want's to know what you think is the best pole polish?   or fly tyer or whatever?   Will you try to stop incramental bans of your equipment by people that you know have a total ban as an agenda?


lazs

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #113 on: January 14, 2005, 10:51:21 AM »
hmm... he musta went fishing.

lazs

Offline lada

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« Reply #114 on: January 14, 2005, 11:01:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by airguard
I got 3 cats, my wife and a axe (wich i actually use for chopping wood) to protect me and I feel fine.

LOL men :D

well my kitchen is closer that my doors

my kitchen is full of a lot of various tools :D


i dont feel need of gun, i think that most people doesnt fear that much overhere.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #115 on: January 14, 2005, 02:50:02 PM »
99% of the time I don't feel I need a gun either but...

since I enjoy em and they are around me anyway..... why not use the best tool for the job?  

If you had a gun near you and were attacked in your kitchen.... would you put it down and grab a butcher knife or an axe?

Maybe I'm not getting your point?

lazs

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #116 on: January 14, 2005, 03:02:25 PM »
Either Nash`s Ritalin kicked in or he passed out while on the floor kicking and screaming while holding his breath. :D
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #117 on: January 15, 2005, 10:32:43 AM »
now I feel guilty about telling him that if he held his breath long enough he would be able to come up with a coherant reply.

lazs

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #118 on: January 15, 2005, 10:36:24 AM »
lada... if the gun were the closest tool what would you use?

If you were in a wheelchair what would you use?

If I came at you with a 3 foot steel crowbar would you pick up the gun or the knife to defend yourself?

If I came at you with 3 other guys with crowbars what kitchen utensil would work the best?

It is simply a matter of tools.  One should allways use the best tool for the job if it is availabel...  If not... improvise.   You seem to feel that not being allowed a choice of tools is a good thing.   I feel that choice is allways best.

lazs

Offline lada

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« Reply #119 on: January 15, 2005, 10:51:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
lada... if the gun were the closest tool what would you use?

If you were in a wheelchair what would you use?

If I came at you with a 3 foot steel crowbar would you pick up the gun or the knife to defend yourself?

If I came at you with 3 other guys with crowbars what kitchen utensil would work the best?

It is simply a matter of tools.  One should allways use the best tool for the job if it is availabel...  If not... improvise.   You seem to feel that not being allowed a choice of tools is a good thing.   I feel that choice is allways best.

lazs


1. Woden stick and mouth

2. Mouth and gun

3. some of the mace for preparing meat (i like fun)

4. 3 guyss.. umm modified mixer would be best option. i would simply run away and call police.

However in our country we usualy do not shot at people even if they are trying to breach our doors.

However we have quite high morale standarts among thiefs, so they run away, when somebody spot them.
 :cool: